Firstly, I will not be able to attend tommorow. So if somebody wants to go in my place pls feel welcome

Overall, feelings are mixed. The first half of the day was primarily to familarize with people and get to know their work and the usual inaugration fundas. I think it was time not efficiently spent (given that we have to bunk office !)

I was as eager to meet the Praja folks as much as the transport bigwigs and was happy to meet mcadambi, murali and co. Could get to exchange some notes

THe later presentations were usefull.

There were some ideas thrown about. Like RK Mishra (of Lead India fame) suggest 3 tier structures (roads followed by METRO/expressway followed by road again) to increase capacity. Have a few arguments against it, but one of the problems with such fora is there is not time to take an idea/suggestion to a possible conclusion or at least some kind of action item. Thats kind of frustrating because everything is open ended.

Maybe someday when Praja has enough clout, we should organise an upside down conference. Where aam junta out here present concrete suggests and people from the govt. organisations can counter and explain why they will not work, If it can pass their critique, it should be implemented.

One of the positives that came out is that lot of people are aware and understand the issues at hand. Some of the people have gone in some depth analysing and understanding the problem (a presentation on skywalks comes to mind as well as the BRTS in Ahemdabad). Which is good. We are not the only one who are 'really' thinking !

There were a range of presentations, on METRO, on BDA, BMLTA by Gupta ji, also one on Monorail. This gives a good picture of whats happening. It does appear a lot of things are moving and quite quickly, but only time will tell.

Will continue in a later mail

Suhas

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Okay, so perhaps this is what the BBMP engineers were talking when they proposed Inner Core Ring Road to be a 3-level road (see "inner ring road - whats up?"). Perhaps its all R K Misra's idea. Interesting.

Suhas - How did you guess!? That "upside down" conference is something on our roadmap. We badly want to do a thing like that. A conference where users aka consumers speak and present, of course in some analytical fashion. No bigwigs to present and talk, but we'd invite them to sit in the front-row and listen. We'd definitely do a conf like that, someday, not right now though - once we are a bit bigger and better known.

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Murali, great and hilarious comments on the Nano auto-taxis, and linking it to Tata bus service. ROTFL.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

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Much to my regret, I was unwell and could not make it. Really sorry. I hope the summit results in something positive.

Look forward to Silkboard's participation in the Infra Committee meeting on 18th.

-----------------------

Regards

Devesh R. Agarwal

Visit my aviation blog at http://aviation.deveshagarwal.com

PS : Why is everything centered all of a sudden ?

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... has Murali's comment.

Just got back from my day at this summit. Met lots of interesting people, and saw some good and some not so good presentations. Let me catch up with some work and then a solid post on the day today.

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The Summit consisted of Panels from India and USA.  The India Panelists Consisted of

1. Sri Sudahar Rao Chief Secretary GOK and Other Secretaries Working Departments on the subject.
2. Other related Government working body heads Like Sri V Madu, MD KSIDC also including the ACP (Traffic) Police Sri Praveen Sood.
3. Heads of Private Bodies like Sahyog and other Consultants

1. Connie Sorell chef of Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT)
2. David Faria, President and CEO Technology Solutions
3. Gummada Murthy VDOT
4. Marthand Nookala Asst County Administrator public works Minneapolis
5. Harshad Desai Federal High way US DOT
6. Bev Michell Trabnscore
7. and Others

1. Institutional Framework and Policy
2. Integrated Transit Planning
3. Traffic and Transportation Management

1. Processes/Institutional limitations
2. System permanency
3. Institutional Fragmentation
4. Policy functions
5. Alignment of institutions
6. Objective Measurement
7. Etc.

• not sure where we are going
• know what we do not know
• Integrated Fully coordinated performance driven operation

The first days report (front page) in TOI was also very interesting

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Fix_potholes_have_working_traffic_signals/rssarticleshow/3469231.cms 

I have yet to read the other one at page 4 which others have already mentioned. 

Second Day 

I had some interactions with the Indian US panelists like

• Marthand Nookala,
• Gummada Murthy
• Harshad Desai.

Found them very nice people to talk to who keep roots in India with frequent visits to their home countries. Marthand Nookala for example visited India every year for 18 years in a row. I had a great day meeting Other Praja members like Kadambi and srkuhalli, yesterday and coming to know more about Muralidhar Rao and Pranav to day.

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Lots of things to add -

THe monorail presentation by a private party was interesting, not the least because they suggested a completely different route from the RITES report (almost zero correlation). I think in some sense its good. RITES report should be used as a baseline/guidance but not a vedavakya which you cannot break.  In the same line, the METRO phase 2 seemed to have a slightly different route, which seemed to have incorporated Naveens suggestions of routing it via ITPL. It passed buy too quickly for me to be sure however.

 METRO seems to be in high spirits. I realise everybody has a pet peeve/ strong stand on their list. Murali's is obviously Private bus service (hey, hopefully we will see that day !) and mc..... is the comuter rail (I strongly support it, infact I think it is the most cost effective, easy, efficient and max impact which can be done in a very short time to immediately transform bangalore transport - more of that later). Well, mine surface rail, call it by any name - at grade metro,  suburban et al . Its dirt cheap (1/10th cost of METRO )and can carry large volumes. The only big problem is that one needs to plan well ahead. Its impossible to lay lines once the densification(development ) has happened. Whats gone is gone, but at least one can start the planning for TIER 2 cities and peripherial areas of TIER 1 cities right away. Well I tried to bring up the question to the METRO man, Mr Chandra, but he did not understand the question at all.  He went about saying how can you have level crossings in the centre of the city when the headway is 3 mins !. Again, there is not time to follow up on his answer and I plan to pursue this (inspired by Murali of course !) . BTW, you'll too be bombared by a lot of mails on this in the next few days !

 In that context, I think we should have a followup meeting with the METRO and monorail guys. One of the other things that scared me about the METRO is they plan to have parking space only at interchange points. If the nearest metro station to my house does not have parking, that is going to make a major disincentive and will definitely reduce ridership.

 Almost done - some titbits tommorow

Suhas

Suhas

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D) Sri Syed Zameer Pasha, MD, BMTC
1) In his presentation, he went on to acclaim "Yelli Iddira?", amongst other things. That really got my goat. During the interaction session, I intended asking him how Bangalore could hope to achieve public transport usage for 75% trips made by citizens in another 5 years (as projected by Mr Jawaid Akhtar the previous day) when the BMTC is mandated to display destination boards only in Kannada, leaving out of its scope non-Kannada speaking floating as well as resident population. Instead, I landed up tellin him that the "Yelli Iddira?" service wasn't working, and as the one who had set it up, I know it for a fact. He mumbled a response that he had heard that there were some issues involved with it.
2) The TTMC's appear serve the only purpose of show-casing Big Bazaar, but at tremendous cost of time and money to the common man. A fit case for an RTI exercise. Check http://praja.in/bangalore/blog/murali772/2008/09/08/bmtcs-business-oriented-outlook
3) He had stated that getting the co-operation of the 20,000 odd staff was a major challenge, and he sought suggestions from experts. The simple and in fact the only answer is effective competition.

E) Prof M N Sreehari - totally disappointing

F) Sri Bhaskar Rao, Transport Commissioner -
1) The Police Commissioner had told me to take up the Kannada (only) number plate issue with him. He went on to say that it was primarily the traffic police's responsibility. He then went on to add that very soon the encrypted number board system will be in place, and with that the problem should get soted out. He didn't readily have a time frame for implementing that.

2) He was appreciative of the idea of competition for BMTC.

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I am still digesting all that is being reported on Transinnova/BMLTA. One of your question got my attention.

" IMTC's (terminals for out-station buses) on the out-skirts of the city are in order. But, these should be available for use ( on payment of user charges) by private bus operators also. .."

During 90's I used to visit Hosur and its industrial area vey frequently. In those days and earlier to it also, I had noticed that the private busses were also used to play from the bus stop in Hosur along with TN public transport service. I have seen this at different place in TN also.

It make no sense to disallow private service from govt owned bus stops.

My vote would be to take the Bus station operation to a next level similiar to airport operations.

Murali sir, you are votary of less government. Why not the bus stop operations and maintenance be given it to the private players. That way atleast you can expect working restrooms and water taps.

I am hoping my thoughts are in line with Indian conditions.

Syed

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"As I understand, pedestrian walk-ways on NH7 (Hebbal to new airport) have not been provided, because NHAI does not allow advertising on structures built across its property, because of which you can't have a PPP." 

I think it is also due to the fact that NHAI has lot of plans on NH7 like the high speed rail link, elevated expressways etc whose alignments have not been finalized yet. Everybody only knows anything over the ground will be in the way of "plans in the air" and will need clearance from NH7.

But one thing. atleast BBMP should try initiating a dialouge with NH7 to see who is going to bell the cat.  

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After hearing good things about the first day's session (they hit the right notes, so said TOI), I had to go attend the second day. Left Whitefield in 504f, changeed onto 411b, and then a carpool with Murali to Windsor Manor, I did travel right to the transportation summit.

While collecting my pass at the entrance, I introduced myself as from Praja, and the lady asked, "so, shall I seat you in the press". Press? hmm. That set me thinking. How exactly do we describe ourselves? Anyway.

The first few presentations were nice. Mr Praveen Sood spoke about the low hanging fruits, and told his about his traffic management project and what things it can acheive for Bangalore. We know BTRAC is doing the right things - lots of signals, standard signages, street furniture etc, and he is doing a good job. But to a question that he raised himself - we (the people) need an attitudenal change as well, its us who always want to get ahead in whatever way we can. While that is certainly correct, strict enforcement is one way of forcing this attitude change. "One can get away" is a prime contributor to all of us behaving the way we do.

Prof Ashwin Mahesh was up next. He talked about his project - one line summary he collects cellphone data to study and analyze traffic patterns and has built a system to gather and present this data in various ways. We all know about one application of ths data - btis live traffic website. But he shared some other ways this data can be used to inform commuters of traffic condition, or for traffic managers to take decision (and let me extend that - help city leaders plan investment in transportation projects). I liked the slides where he showed cellphone density at 6 AM, and then at 11 AM. that tells about the transportation patters, and requirements. Prof Ashwin Mahesh said that his sytem can track vehicles, public transport buses more easily without requiring GPS because their travel is predictable, the buses can't go much off course, some margin of error can be corrected since we would know their routes!

[This is where the irony hit me. Prof Ashwin was sitting right next to Mr Pasha of BMTC, who went on to claim in his slides that BMTC has a working Yelli Idira. One guy, a prof from IIM-B, has a solution ready, and that too ready for use for nothing (its free, the prof said), and yet BMTC doesn't have a bus infrormation display system for commuters. Anyway.]

There was a presentation then from Marthand Nookala, administrator of Hennepin county (Minneapolis) public works department. Good stuff, but, I don't know how we can even compare the public works system in that country to ours. There is just no point in going over the specifics of their operations. Having traveled extensively to Minneapolis myself, and that too in peak winter, I have seen how they keep the roads clear and traffic moving even in between thick snowfalls. There is no point in comparing things on the ground wrt US. I would have liked to hear about how they plan, how they procure, how they engage public, and what are their transparency norms. The stuff I was looking for wasn't there.

Up next was a presentation from KSRTC. Lots of stats in there, I didn't take notes thinking I will just ask for all the presentations (yes, I went prepared with a 320 GB USB hard disk ). But I was told I will have to collect all the presentations later from BMLTA, they own all the content that was presented. No issues. Back to KSRTC, there was nothing in there that we didn't know. Yes, its a doing-well company, perhaps the best in the country. The presenter though was only looking at the visitors from the US, and repeatedly being defensive with things like "US may have had this for long, but in our country, we were the first ...". Come on, statistically, we are a lot better than the US in public transport. Our quality may suck, yes, but thats partly because of the customer profile (can't pay) - so lets be a bit confident of ourselves, shall we!? Host Mr Ian Faria himself being a motivational speaker, I half expected him to intervene :)

Up next was BMTC presentation. Mr Pasha did a good thing by skipping over almost similar material presented earlier by KSRTC. However, he did list Yelli Idira as an innovative feature of BMTC. And that told me things about other stuff he may have claimed on his slides. Murali lost his cool, understandably. But I was okay, and did my best to not let Murali boil over in anger :)

The quality of presentations was gradually on its way down, and Mr M N Srihari played along. With due respect sir - we know you know a lot - you should realize some things

• Most people know the problems - I mean the stuff we all call road-entropy here.
• Statements like - we must increase awareness, we must plan better - these are not par for a conference where mostly knowledgeable people and government machinery is sitting along.
• Whether listing problems or solutions, power-point is not meant to simply show 20 bullet points per page (he had about 5 slides full of about 80 points)

Perhaps there is a need to be so hands-on and descriptive, we may be assuming most people already know these problems, and Mr Srihari did not. But if this is how Mr M N Srihari presents things to Yeddy (he is on ABIDe), our CM must be struggling to pick priorities and digest things properly. Mr Srihari, you can do better, having read so many sensible quotes from you in the papers, I had better expectations. Sorry for the jibe at your presentation skills.

Mr Bhaskar Rao hit me as a very nice guy. got to meet him. He spoke freely (after asking first if the press was still around - "can't speak freely yaar, they will write things" got us giggling) and gave good stats about vehicular population and ideas on what we could do (and could have done) to control it - differential taxing for road use depending on area, more in CBD Bangalore, less in a remote Halli, etc. He had few more ideas on similar lines.

So all in all, it was nice for the most part. Many good points, some average, but that's the case with most events. All in all, folks were hitting the right points, low hanging fruits via traffic management, futility of working on one signal at a time, focus on public transport - all good stuff.

Meeting-people wise, I tried speaking with Mr M N Srihari to get some information about our pet topic here - Commuter Rail System, Didn't get much out, but I have his card, will write to him and hope he'd remember me even after reading these comments ;) Spoke with Director of Soma Developers (they are building BETL). Asked him for some details on the project, he said he will share if there is more than whats already on their website. Met Mrs Iyengar from Geodesic systems - they are part of the monorail consortium. She had some interesting maps and stats to share, they have apparently done a lot of surveys etc, but the docs aren't public (naturally, they are still bidding for the monorail project). But she said she will share whatever she can. She has read some stuff we have written here - I think Tarle and blrsri's takes on monorail light-rail etc. We talked a lot, good 10-15 mins if not more.

Couldn't find time to catch up with mcadambi who had was also around. Sorry Malolan, should see you in the next Praja meet.

Took 1.5 days to type all this stuff. More as I recall in context of other discussions here. Power to BMLTA. Its a body setup with a wonderful purpose, lets all wish for them to do well.

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what ashwin mahesh is doing is not to be taken lightly. that is a very significant contribution. without divulging much, i can tell you that good academic programs in the US are trying to jump on that bandwagon. to put it across with a broad stroke, what he is talking about is data generated from cheap, dispensible and yet more pervasive and distributed sensors.

ofcourse, there are some people who are studying value of information thus generated and their preliminary results have shown the need to go beyond information into domain of knowledge and decision. but that is secondary. right now, very critical to appreciate what AM is doing and use it solve some of our urgent problems.

One thing to ask AM is how good an estimate of traffic volume can he generate? Can we use his data as traffic survey? next level using his data can we generate travel pattern information? knowledge mining. any of you guys happen to meet him can you ask him about these?

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what did she say? what did she say? about the monorails? tell more no? please.

i like what you are doing with the conference - networking. thats the most fuirtful thing is done.

also raises hope and responsibility. our noises have impact.

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... to see what they can share. Meanwhile, lets start another monorail thread, viability, stats, footprint, possible routes, feeder stuff for Metro. We have talked all that, I know. But time to keep redoing those things.

BTW, Naayan's post on possible design of TTMC was up there in Mr Gupta's presentation,  the diagrams were thre with credits. Bravo NArayan! I tried a phone pic shot. Will upload that on flickr.

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The 2nd day session started off with Mr Ian Faria, the moderator, asking the participants who had attended the previous days sessions, to narrate for the benefit of the new participants, what their specific 'take homes' were. I stated that I was now beginning to find everyone talking the language of public transport, cycling, pedestrianisation, which was a very welcome thing, and that, with due apologies to the friends from the US, I would like to see Bengaluru follow the Amsterdam/ Paris/ London model rather than the LA model. The janata applauded, and there were nods of approval even from the US delegates.

I have already posted my comments on the presentations by most of the panelists. Here's an addenda:

Dr Subramanya, BBMP Commissioner -
1) In keeping with the general trend, he is also beginning to lay emphasis on public transport, pedestrianisation, cycling, etc. He stated that some 4 arteries in the city centre are soon going to be having 1.5M cycle tracks - I believe Nrupathunga road is one of them. How they are going to be interconnected is a million dollar question. Whatever, there's a beginning of a change in approach.
2) One of his slides showed a vastly built up area (Avenue road/ Chickpet area ???), which he stated is going to be declared as a pedestrian zone.
3) Sky-walks (pdestrian cross-overs extended over long stretches) are supposedly coming up in a number of places. Here, I would like to ask him the question (I had posed under the notes on Mr Praveen Sood) as to why they are not putting up cross-overs on NH7.

Mr Gaurav Gupta -
Can BMLTA become a single window source for info on all traffic/ transportation related matters?

Mr Brian McCollom, Management Consultant from the US -

He emphasised the need for the services to be attractive, reliable, and predictable, for attracting increased usage of public transport. Further, made an interesting point that even as Bengaluru was enjoying an economic boom, because of the tremendous industrial growth led by IT/ BT sectors, the advantages will get neutralised if the infrastructural growth did not catch up fast enough. It's a very competitive world, and if we don't get our act together fast enough, other countries will overtake us.

Ms Constance S Sorrell, Chief of Systems Operations, Virginia Dept of Transportation -
This was the lady to whom SB has made a reference in his notes. While she elaborated on how information was disseminated to the public through the web-site during the project stage, what I (and, I expect SB) was interested in is the process of their seeking approval from the public on the need of a project, as also its parameters. I have the visiting cards of some of the delegates, and I shall mail them to see if I can get a response.

Mr Stephen Lockwood, Sr Vice President, PB Consult, Washington DC -
On the sidelines, asked me to list out some reasons why I thought private players would do better. I told him about BMTC's Kannada only destination board mandate, as also the prolifertion of routes - 1600 odd in number, with route 201 alone having tags ranging upto something like K. He readily agreed they were good enough reasons.

Mr Harshad Desai, Transportation Specialist, Federal Highway Administration, US -
Being of Gujarati origin, and a regular visitor to India, he fully understood the position on the ground when I told him about at all, compared to what was being claimed in the presentations. He expressed interest in PRAJA activities, as also an interest in meeting up with Syed, being a resident of Washington DC himself.

Muralidhar Rao

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Please check out point no 8 listed under my policy paper at
http://praja.in/blog/murali772/2007/12/12/better-bussing-green-bangalore
which states exactly what you are saying.

We need companies like GMR, who have taken over the operations and maintenance of Delhi airport, to do the same for our bus stations, rly stations, courts, police stations, and even BBMP offices and the Vidhan Soudha itself.

Muralidhar Rao

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Connecting cycle tracks is a good point.

Instead of laying cycle tracks on the convinently broad roads far apart, they need to choose point A to point B and lay a cycle track all the way without disconnects. Let us say from Garuda mall parking lot connecting Bangalore central parking lot and MG road to commercial street and back.

This has to backed up with congestion charging in CBD so people can be encouraged to carry a cycle along in their cars when they go. 

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A brief summary of my observations on the 1st day is appended below. I have limited them to areas not covered elsewhere.

Sri R K Misra, Sahyog -
Emphasised on multi-tier roads/ tracks as the new way out; gave the example of Bangkok, which according to him has come to terms with its problems through this solution. I don't know enough to comment. Whatever, doesn't quite appeal to me.

Sri R Ashoka, Transport Minister, GoK -
He is now spelling his name with the 'a' at the end. Read out a prepared speech in Kannada, synopsis of which was given by Sri Gaurav Gupta for the benefit of the US delegates - nothing earth-shaking.

Dr A Ravindra, CPP, IIM
NANO in place of auto; endorsed my suggestion for take over of high-end bus operations by TATAs. You read it all in the papers.

Sri Jawaid Akhtar, Spl Sec, Infrastructure, GoK
With a name like that, I always expect him to start off with a shahiri :))). Talked about targeting public transport usage at 75% of trips made by citizens in another 5 years, as compared to 47% in '06 (down from 55% in '82).

Sri Arvind Jadhav, Principal Sec, IDD, GoK
Cautioned colleagues against mis-carriage of PPPs, like is being alleged in the case of BIAL. I have begun to develop a healthy respect for him.

BDA Chief Engineer (in liue of Mr Siddiah, Commissioner) -
Highlight was the 18-lane Peripheral Ring Road, with BRT, utility lane, etc.

Prof H M Shivananda Swamy, CEPT, Ahmedabad -
Talked about the impressive strides made by Ahmedabad, particularly in BRT.

Rep of S N Bhobhe & Associates, Mumbai
Skywalk specialists - showed interesting slides on newly installed 300 M long sky-walk in Mumbai.

Muralidhar Rao

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One of the US delegates (I don't recall who) had made an interesting point that the bus continues to play a significant role in public transportation even in cities where MRT systems have come up. And, the biggest plus of bus system is its flexibility and versatility.

But, BRT, in my opinion, compromises that greatly.

Muralidhar Rao

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BMLTA has kept their word, and all material presented during the summit is available at:

http://bmlta.org/TransportSummit

Thanks BMLTA, you guys rock, and transparency is only going to win you more friends.

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Hi All, Just been thro' the presentations made at the summit - the relevant people do understand problems at hand, & most of the proposed solutions are long-term - guess we will have to rough it out till the various proposals see the light of day, if ever ! Wonder why we are so slow in implementation & do not seem to be moving ahead fast enough ? I particularly enjoyed Prof.Shivananada Swamy's presentation, where he highlights that Banglore's road infrastructure lacks hierarchy & continuity - very true & a big contributing factor to the mess, but then, that's the way it has developed & we need to make do with what is at hand, I guess. Also noted the BRT plans for Ahmadabad - looks well planned & impressive - the route plans appear to be removed & isolated from the rest of the roadways & avoid traffic signals - they are putting up exclusive overhead busways around the Sarangpur area & also around the railway station - sure to be a winner !

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