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Questions for BIAL (The first List)
narayan82 - 29 March, 2008 | BIAL | Traffic | Bangalore
I have compiled the list of questions. As predicted there are LOTS! Practically I dont think BIAL will have the time to answer each and every one of them! After a point they would care too much about doing so. I suggest we condensing it by trying to answer them ourselves. If it is still not a convincing answer then we can go ahead with it. Last chance I guess to add more questions...(if there is time) Apart from that I request all memebers to take photographs extensively! ------------------------------------------------- QUESTIONS! 1. Airport Size and Capacity A) For 27 million capacity, Delhi International Airport Limited is building a terminal of approx. 400,000 sq meters. Why is BIAL constraining 11 million passengers to just 70,000 sq mts? B) BIAL seems to have under-planned for almost every facility. While the 12 million capacity, HIAL terminal has 12 aerobridges, BIAL only has 8. Was cost a driving factor? C) The airport's capacity will be about 11 million pass/per annum at opening. This number will be insufficient within say, one or two years as news reports have suggested that there are almost 15 new carriers that are interested in operating out of BIAL, including several long haul flights to 'Frisco & other US destinations. Thus, it appears that steps to expand need to commence almost immediately after opening. What steps are being taken to minimize inconveniences to users ? & with the expansion, & increased no. of users, a rail link would become a necessity. Why is Monorail not being considered? 2. Expansion Plans A) What is in Store? What are the timelines for T2 & the second runway? B) If the IAF declines to part with the land for the second runway, would there be a second runway at all. If yes, how long would it take to build it? C) Would there be two level arrival /departure at new terminal, or would the terminal have almost the same design as the present one. 3. Parking & Landside Area (Those going can take a picture and mark a map with the plan - and where vehicles will go.) A) Is the exit road the one immediately south of the parking lot, or the one further south of this road (next to airport hotel?) B) At how many points are passengers allowed to cross the roads in front of the terminal? are there systems to enforce that at only these points pedestrian crossing is possible? C) Will traffic wardens be employed at the land side to manage the flow? are arrival and departure traffic staggered on the same road or they on the two parallel roads in from of the terminal? D) Are there any long term parking lots planned, so that one can drive the car to the airport in the morning, park the car and board the flight and return in the evening, pick up the car and drive home? E) In the absence of vertical separation of arrival and departure paths, how does BIAL hope to minimize chaos arising from criss-crossing of arrival and departure traffic? F) Can the departing passengers come out to the departure send-off points after check-in - Specially in international terminal? This is not allowed in the HAL airport and one sees no logic in this. In fact, crowding could be reduced if passengers can move out for a final cuppa with the relatives. Alternatively, will the non-passengers be allowed into the check-in departure areas if they have an entry ticket? This helps when elderly persons, first-timers, ladies with children or alone travel. Abroad, this is permitted in almost all airports. G) Does BIAL allow other taxi operators (city taxi etc who are not licensed to operate from BIAL) to enter the departure area? H) How does BIAL plan to prevent touts/middle men who charge (for customs clerance, luggage handling, forex etc) in the airport? I) BIAL had mentioned that they would errect a canopy over the car park - would like to know what stage this is, As its not seen in any picture. J) Also are you saying that people will be bussed directly between car/bus parking lots in front of the terminal to tarmac behind? K) The main question is land side traffic, as bangalorean asked. The terminal is two level internally, but the land side has one level access. How efficient is this? and also since the existing master plan says ultimately there will be a H shaped terminus, will it be possible to make the rest of the terminals have two level land side access? 4. Check-in-Area A) Since BIA promises rapid check-in (and check-out) due to its improved and stream-lined processes, can the reporting time be shortened with respect to flight departure? From what I understand, currently its 1 hour for domestic and 3 hours for international. If we can make it as 30 minutes and 1.5 hours respectively, then it would be great and also it can offset time taken to reach the airport. B) What are the Amenities for Children, Aged and disabled passengers? C) Food and snacks availability - 24/7 : Are their plans to provide options for affordable basic needs like food and snacks given that there are no options in the vicinity? There has been an outcry over outrageous pricing of the very basic food and beverages at the HIAL. D) Are there self baggage weighing machines where passengers can check the weight of their check-in baggage’s they and make changes to bring it within the allowable limits? This is particularly required for international departures and will ensure that errant passengers don't hold up check-in queues. 6. Airside Questions A) Do they have covered stairs - aircraft entry/exit where there are no aero-bridges - for monsoon? B) I was wondering why people are still being ferried to remote gates in buses. I have seen that many small airports have more than 8 aerobridge gates. HIAL also has a similar number. Why is it that? C) Isn’t this bussing more energy intensive solution, over the long run? Wouldn’t a bigger terminal to support more bridges be cheaper in the long run? D) BIAL seems to have under-planned for almost every facility. While the 12 million capacity, HIAL terminal has 12 aerobridges, BIAL only has 8. Was cost a driving factor? 5. Other Questions A) BIAL has mentioned that there ATF Surcharge is less than that of HIAL – will that in return nullify/make up with the UDF? B)When will the Air-India/SATS and Menzies/Bobba Group Cargo terminals be fully functional? C) While service is set to increase in BIAL overall, will there be better customs staff service – politer immigration agents and no rude policemen? ----------------END----------------------------------
COMMENTS
Also, on the plan I do not
narayan82 - 30 March, 2008 - 15:43
Also, on the plan I do not see any taxiways leading to the hangars. Also there seems to be a gap between the cargo apron and the warehouses. Only 2 planes to be parked at Cargo? Anyway I guess the visit will clear most of the questions
I remember reading that
shashi - 30 March, 2008 - 15:45
I remember reading that terminal floor size was increased by 30% from earlier 55,000 sq mt to 70,000 sq mts after the redesign.
For a start I can think of a few answers: (3. G) G) Does BIAL allow other taxi operators (city taxi etc who are not licensed to operate from BIAL) to enter the departure area? BIAL controls access of all cars and vehicles from the Trumptet Exhange (As it is thier land from thier). When I heard last Autos are not allowed inside. Private taxis are allowed but will not be able to take passengers back. Only the schedules Taxi operators will imply taxis. (6. A)Do they have covered stairs - aircraft entry/exit where there are no aero-bridges - for monsoon? Ans: Yes they do - the images of the flight trials show them. (6. B) I was wondering why people are still being ferried to remote gates in buses. I have seen that many small airports have more than 8 aerobridge gates. HIAL also has a similar number. Why is it that? Ans:The current airport hast 42 Stands - not possible for a gate for each. Busses are hence essential. Also, the airline's charges for using a remote stand (bussing) is less than that of a aerobridge - hence giving LCC (low cost carriers) a better option.I am sure with expansion this will increase (aerobridges)
Questions.
tsubba - 30 March, 2008 - 00:27
Thanks narayan for the list. must have been quite a task hack through through that thread. some more qs from that that list water for BIAL. Since Devanahalli is a severely water constrained area, what are the steps being taken by BIAL to recycle rain and gray water at the airport facilities and at allied facilities like airport hotel and airport city. have these systems been audited by an agency such as the TERI? Airport city. eventually, BIAL will get a rail link from the city. Apart from a stop at the terminal(s) will there be a stop that will allow people working/staying at the airport city to use the train? Amenities for spending long hours for transit or long haul passengers Special areas for Praying (like Namaz) and meditation. * Will there be a meeting point area to receive arriving passengers? What is the fee for entry to such points? * Do they have covered stairs - aircraft entry/exit where there are no aero-bridges - for monsoon? * How big is the transit lounge and are there comfortable chairs to stretch out? * Is the duty free shopping area accessible from the transit/arrival/departure areas (post security check)? * Do they have visibility inside (through transparent glass separators) for receiving parties to see the arriving passengers? Many times there is a crowding at the arrival points due to the anxiety/eagerness of friends/relations to greet their arriving dear ones. Transparent panels would prevent this crowding and one sees no security hazard in such a facility. * Can the departing passengers come out to the departure send-off points after check-in - Specially in international terminal? This is not allowed in the HAL airport and one sees no logic in this. In fact, crowding could be reduced if passengers can move out for a final cuppa with the relatives. * Alternatively, will the non-passengers be allowed into the check-in departure areas if they have an entry ticket? This helps when elderly persons, first-timers, ladies with children or alone travel. Abroad, this is permitted in almost all airports.
re. Airport size & Capacity
tsubba - 30 March, 2008 - 15:30
click for larger images
current master plan
sure I can add it - how Do i
narayan82 - 30 March, 2008 - 15:40
sure I can add it - how Do i edit my blog? I will add it and re send the list to the admin.
Airport size and capacity
tango08 - 30 March, 2008 - 15:00
Regarding airport size and capacity, we need to take a step back and ask: what was the terminal size and supporting infrastructure (such as aircraft stands, bridges, gates, taxiways, baggage handling, parking facilities, access roads, lounges, seats, escalators, lifts, toilets, etc) according to the original plan when the airport was designed to handle 6 million passengers and what was the incremental change in each of those as a result of the re-design which ramped up the capacity to 11 million. Also would BIAL be open to an independent auditor assessing the current capacity of the airport? I get the impression that the capacity has been ramped up by adding additional bridges and gates, while most other facilities including the terminal size have stayed loyal to the original plan. It might not be a huge problem if there is a constant flow through the airport with all flights running according to schedule. A two of three hour disruption would throw this "warehouse" into chaos. I presume if there is a disruption, the check-in counters will be closed. But I don't see any seating arrangements in the mail hall prior to check-in. Oh well… Overall, the airport falls woefully short of expectations and hope Mr.Brunner appreciates this – using excuses such as the airport is good because it is “modular” does not go down all too well. It is a blow to the credibility of swiss firms and people will think twice before employing a swiss firm to execute major projects. We should’ve just let them build the clocks for BIAL. Apologies for the rant.
I have two more questions
shashi - 30 March, 2008 - 15:56
I have two more questions though they may not be very important from airport efficiency point of view. See if you can accomadate
1. will BIAL call for competitive bidding for 2nd Phae of expansion (like HIAL) or will it be executed by partners? (i.e L&T, Siemens). Because BIAL awarding work contract to its own partners without calling tenders had caused furore in parliament by CPI(M) members
2. We all know that airport city is a major revenue earner for BIAL. No one knows when it will get ready ? Whatz happening on that front?
oops sorry, just getting
narayan82 - 30 March, 2008 - 16:13
oops sorry, just getting used to this - i tried to add the question and in the progress deleted it the comment. will rectify this....
Correcting what they did not do in the 1st phase
santsub - 30 March, 2008 - 19:56
BIAL has definitely fallen short of expectations in the first phase. Only hope Mr Brunner will come out of his "modular efficient airport" phrase and implement measures to enhance the design when they begin the second phase Construction.
The terminal size is definitely small which I recall Mr. Brunner agreed many times in his interviews but then he said lack of time as the reason for the current size. Even the ATC tower needs some TLC - with all the complaints we have heard from AAI officials that there was only one escalator and cramped relaxing rooms for the ATC personnell. It sometimes makes it hard to beleive how did it cost Rs 2500 Cr to build the warehouse terminal and a runway. Ofcourse the debate will be on the trumpet exchange costing another Rs 200crs.
I am more than eager to see what will our friends get to see and what answers will be given when they visit the airport site duing the "terminal to tarmac tour "on April 6th. Hope things will get better.
Would help be taken from the SW Railways?
MaheshSastry - 1 April, 2008 - 06:58
The quick solution would be running the train from City-Cant-MLW-Yes-Hebbal(LG Halli Station)-YEL and then to BIAL. From West also similarly it can be utilized. Is there any plans to talk to SW railways and run the train?
Wouldn't this be an idea that would help people and also raise funds for both SW Railways and BIAL?
I am sure we had this posting before. But I was checking how Bangalore could use metrail which is lot less in terms of cost and pollution free. Plus it looks like a marriage made in heaven for Bangalore as a solution to the narrow roads - Metrail can turn with 20deg radius and uses hybrid technology to power its cars. - Just a thought in place of Mono and for all those areas where Metro cannot reach :)
My letter that appeared in "Mint" newspaper
mcadambi - 1 April, 2008 - 20:15
I wrote a letter to "Mint", the new business paper of Wall Street Journal in India. It is about BIAL:
http://www.livemint.com/2008/04/02002235/Loadshedding-means-daily-Eart.html
make as much..
blrsri - 1 April, 2008 - 23:43
Its a privately built airport and the contracts written has decided the loop holes..be it BMIC or BIAL..
'Factory/warehouse like' 'no capacity planning' remain just observations and at best what the govt did was to listen to YSR to open HIAL days before BIAL..instead made it better by a few months..thats under their control!
However KSTDC service is the best I should say..quite resonable, safe and efficient..wonder why they dropped them!
How about having directions to BIAL from all corners of the city
muni_blr - 2 April, 2008 - 07:02
I know there are a lot of routes that are being discussed from various parts of the city and the time taken to reach the destination. I feel that we should have signboards saying way to BIAL from different parts of the city so that people travelling to the airport have some sort of convinience in terms of the Best route taken. This should be done atleast a week before the airport opens.
Hurry Home
The Sage
standard road signage
blrsri - 2 April, 2008 - 08:12
Yes, we will need to have the standard signage indicating the direction to the airport..
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Airport_Sign.svg
This should be on all roads linking to BIA
Few Questions to add on - Imp as Citizen and Passenger View
naveengn - 3 April, 2008 - 14:39
suggestions by naveengn are
ssheragu - 3 April, 2008 - 16:28
suggestions by naveengn are quite good
ANY Anwers from BIAL for the above questions ???
naveengn - 7 April, 2008 - 13:19
Wish You all A Happy Ugadi.
Seems that you had a nice trip to BIAL. Thanks for the photos. BIAL looks really good.
Do we have any updates from BIAL on our questions?
Regards,
Naveen
BIAL Concerns - 1
bialterminal - 10 April, 2008 - 23:18
This comment has been moved here.
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