I agree - we should pause, gather data, extrapolate for next 15-20 years, design well and execute well. 

I think this is a great technology. Only, BBMP has not applied it correctly. In the case of Cauvery u/p, if you don't consider other design flaws, if not the width, atleast the length of the u/p could have been more. It would have allowed vehicles taking U-turn on the top, more space to maneuver. Now only one bus can move at a time on top of the u/p.

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If you look at the BDA junction unerpass, the widht of the underpass seemed fine to me. The combined widht of the two sections (12 mts) was the widht that the two roads had before anyways. In fact the road from Seshadripuram isonly 5 mts wide. But again, the concern is of the widht of the ramp. Has the BBMP comprimised on the widht as they couldn't aquire land for the service lanes? It seems that if a buss is passing on the ramp it would be extremly risky for a car to overtake! And considering MANY busses will be plying on this strect frm Windsor Manor Junction to Cauvery Junction (and reverse). I think in the process of experimenting new technology, working last minue, in a hasty fashion we have completed ruined a road to the airport in the Long run.As soon as the traffic increases to 1 and half times the existing volume we will have traffic jams. and these concrete structures will come in the way to building more infrastruction (elevated roads, underpasses, flyovers. So now what do we do?, I suggest we go ahead with the planned underpasses, make them as wide as possible and get on and complete it. Finish all the 7 underpasses make it signal free. I feel we have to develop another signal free road to the airport (I suggest ORR or Lingarajpuram road). And on that road use more viable solutions for the future (conventional flyovers etc etc). Hence untill that constrution is complete citizens will have a signal free ride on the existing road. and hopefully by the time this becomes saturated the other road is ready!

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Underpasses with magic boxes - some one must have done a Power point presentation to the BBMP. Can we do a design analysis and then build underpasses? I guess building interchanges at these junctions with provisions  to build road over road and accomodate railway network should be the goal. Underpasses cannot withstand the pressure if we have to build a road over it. This quickfix solution will further dampen the prospects of building better infrastructure.

 BBMP should stop and rethink before executing another disaster.

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Praveen, Narayan82 & others,

As I had suggested, these underpasses cannot be made successful for normal thoroughfare traffic as traffic volumes will keep increasing & these narrow underpasses will turn out to be obstacles.

From the beginning, I had thought that they would be more suitable if only public transport buses were allowed to use them for according priority of passage & for quick transits - this is the way rapid bus systems have evolved & have been made successful in many cities outside India. Here, in this country, we have become car & private vehicle obsessed & criticize public transport for obstructing passage on the roads, but if the quality of public transport is improved & accorded priority of passage exclusively through these magic boxes, including the vajra volvo buses going to the new airport, whilst cars & other private vehicles are made to go through signal delays, automatically, people will switch over to the faster public buses & this will lead to some control in traffic volumes, maybe even some reduction in due course if such magic boxes & road over drains are exclusive to public transport vehicles.

I am convinced that this is the only way forward to control traffic volumes - any no. of wider fly-overs or underpasses will not be enough as it will only lead to even more motoristaion & traffic & even more congestion at the next signal or junction - where again another flyover will be required in an endless cycle, as we have already seen in the past.

Whilst a good network of roads is required, control mechanisms for the volumes of traffic must also be in place, which at present is practically Nil & the car /vehicle owning public keeps asking for more & more flyovers /multi-level garages & elevated expressways - this is wasteful & endless.

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Naveen, I know the point about reduction of congestion by the use of Public transport. I am also an advocate of the same philosophy. I urge you to read my initial post again. Width of anandnagar underpass - ~10Ft Width of Cauvery Underpass - ~12 Ft I dont think these dimensions are suitable for public transport, and wrt Anandnagar u/p the location can afford a wider underpass. Let alone the fact that at both these places pedestrians have been ignored. -- Praveen Sundaram AkA PhotoYogi

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I completely agree that a public transport system will be the best solution for Bangalore. I hope the Metro will solve this, but our demorcracy seems to slow any infrastructure project down! W.r.t to the airport, I think a Bus Lane, from City to Hebbal flyover is a must. Also a CAT (City Air Transit Centre) in Mg Road is essential. A bus isn't always the solution. For E.g. if I were to go to the airport at 5 AM, and I have two big bags, I have to walk 2 kms to the nearest Vajra Vaayu Stop. Hence If say my company is paying I would prefer a taxi/car. BUT - if there was a CAT, I would take that same taxi/car till the CAT only. The problem is - because of Autos, Bad Pavements, Traffic - we bangloreans are hesitant to walk, even 1 - 2 kms. We prefer an auto. We are used to being dropped at our door steps. A good bus network must be accompanied by easy access to pedestrians and good foot paths. Then we can even think of introducing congestion charges for private vehicles - especially in the CBD.

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Hi Praveen,

thanks for yr post. Technically, increasing width is difficult & time consuming, as also expensive. Many factors are involved - such as road width & space available (one has to think of service exits by the side also to provide outlet/s for other traffic flow directions), crane handling capacity & anchoring facilities when lifting /placing (higher the width, stronger the elements will have to be & consequently, heavier the sections), etc. I have physically not seen the spot - you may have & therefore, may be in a better position to comment if width can indeed be increased.

If there are constraints, the width is bound to be narrow & even if this slows down the bus or other public transport vehciles, it's an acceptable delay. Allowing all types of vehicles & sundry is inviting trouble as it will prove insufficient very soon with induced traffic - more corridors you open to private traffic, more private traffic you invite - this is an accepted reality worldwide. Hence, right at the beginning, they should have announced a signal free corridor only for public transport & airport connectivity buses, as also emergency services such as ambulances & police /essential services.

If this had been the focus, we would not be debating so much about it & all wud have accepted that the best way to get to the airport is by using the vajra buses, which wud have priority of passage thro' these magic boxes.

As for pedestrian cross overs - skywalks with elevators is the only answer, in my opinion as pedestrians detest going down & up stairways - this should have been focussed on at the inception & locations away from the magic boxes selected /finalised & built seperated from them.

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... in arguing. Lets see some facts. I think a dedicated bus lane was tried on the same route where the discussion is revolving around - from Palace Guttahalli to Hebbal flyover. And it was a major failure. It was removed within a few days. Lets try to get details on why it was a failure. From what I understand, its not realistic to have a dedicated lane for buses on this stretch. Some of the reasons from what I know:

1. Some places there are only 1.5 lanes (just after cauvery jn towards Mekhri u/p)

2. Left lane was designated as bus lane. But other vehicles taking left turn at junctions and buses going straight blocked each other AND/OR other vehicles encroached on to the bus lane before junctions.

3.  Since there was only one lane for buses: While one bus - often that 20 year old - overcrowded and struggling to go up on a steep incline, blocked other younger and more energetic buses (so forget the rapid transit and Volvos).

I think, to be realistic, with present state of roads in Bangalore, it doesn't make sense to have dedicated lanes.

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navshot,

Good point, & I know you are right - trying to make dedicated bus lanes when traffic volumes are very high is unviable & will end in failures. It is like putting the cart before the horse.

For a BRT system to evolve, subtle stage by stage changes /additions /improvements wud be required, atleast for our cities, where people are used to their private vehicles & will create an uproar if road space is taken away.

This was an excellent opportunity to start providing some priority of passage for public transport by announcing that the narrow magic boxes, being very narrow as they are, wud only be for public transport, emergency services & for airport bus connectivity.

Once bus services have been streamlined with priority passage thro' these magic boxes, the next stage can be implemented, which is providing lanes where road width is abundant & available. Thus, a semi-BRT would now be operational. It may not be possible to provide dedicated lanes on all roads due to narrow road widths, & so buses will now be operating in mixed traffic conditions on some roads & on dedicated lanes  where roads are wide. This will sway many motor vehicle users to start using public transport & it will start becoming more & more preferable (as it will reach you to your destination faster). Traffic volumes may also start dipping provided traffic restraints are also simultaneously pushed (such as high parking & fuel costs, congestion pricing, etc) & more road space will become available, whilst public opinion will also start favoring BRT as they will start seeing it as better than private commuting, with signal delays, etc.

Only then can full BRT with continuous networks of dedicated busways be considered. However, our authorities have been trying to make full BRTs out of nothing, & such attempts will keep resulting in failures, whilst public also starts disapproving & thinking that "BRT is not for our city".

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The roads are not widened everywhere. Esp. where we have one and a half lanes, it remains so and will be so in the foresee-able future.

The "narrowest" stretch of the road would dictate the volume of traffic that can flow (using the data network model ) on that stretch. 

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The narrowest stretch on the bellary road is near the HMT corporate office..its just 4 lanes(2+2) that it..theres no space more than that...

BBMP commissioner goes making stmts of a 10 lane road..where is the road?

These people need serious lessons in road design and on making comments!

All that will result from the road infront of UAS is a benniganahalli bridge kind of situation where 10 lanes narrow down to 4!

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Yes I remember the bus lane trial. the the road has been widened now. For most of the journey, so maybe we can try it again, with strictre enforcement. Where there isnt much space, the bus land can end, and only a Bus Bay can be kept at the bus stop. But if we are having a 8 - 10 lane road I am sure we can keep a bus lane. Also Bus drivers need to be trained to be patient. I have often seen them trying to overtake parked busses at bays, and creating a jam. I have noticed in the UK, busses follow a single file, irrespective of the road widht. And at Busbays, they park behind each other, waiting to approach the bus stop. Its easier to enforce and train 2000-3000 drivers then 8 million people in the city. This itself can help solve part of the problem.

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maybe we (citizens) have to have a march from gandhi Statue to the Govns. office against BBMP's poor planning and hasty work... But my worry is that any negative feedback will lead to NO development, and leave it in a pathetic state!

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Today I saw a traffic PC controlling traffic from Bhashyam Circle towards BDA. The main idea of the junction was to make the junction a signal free. I think this is same as what we had earlier!!! Really do we need this underpass? Hope this wont continue at other junctions.

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