Picture 1. Mohandass Pai , Ramesh Ramanathan at the Venue 

 Picture 2. The Moderator with the Debaters on the Stage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Picture 3. Ramesh Ramanathan Inaugurating the debate

 Picture 4 The Janagraha announcement of the event

 

 

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 Caste, religion, race and language are not sustainable identities. These issues matter little to the protection of global commons. On the one hand we are asking nations to separate state and religion and on the other hand we are taking too long to push the caste/religion elephant out our door. The longer we stay on it the less our politicians will be answerable to civic issues instead. 

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The politicians on the stage repeatedly pointed fingers at the public for not actively participating in the democratic process. So, when I got an opportunity to raise a question, I stated that I had, althrough my life, been very active in RWA circles, and politics was the next logical step for me. But how could I join a party where the slightest of criticism against any member of the Nehru-Gandhi family is considered blasphemy (so much so, when Shashi Tharoor wants to send out a message now, he keeps having to look over his shoulders), or one which persisted with a Varun Gandhi inspite of the kind of hate-campaign he was carrying on during elections. So, finally when an opportunity opened up in the form of the LokSattaKarnataka, I joined it, and now proposing to walk the talk by contesting the BBMP elections.

This was received by thunderous applause from the audience - ilva Ananthram avare'?
 

 

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Politics (as in personalities and parties) gets far too much coverage and attention. Maturity of media and people (as in citizens or praja-jana) will show when the focus changes to outcomes (projects, specifics) rather than what goes on behind the outcomes (politics, etc).

May be a simple comparison of airtime given to politics across our democracy and that in some other developed nations should prove the point. Our media either buys into this immaturity or feeds it by assuming that people (media's consumers) want focus and scrutiny on politics and not the outcomes.

Focus on food and how it was cooked is a different thing compared to the focus on the cook. Do you even care about the chef or the owner when you decide to patronize or desert your neighbourhood restaurant? I bet not, you and me only care about the food.

Another this immaturity reflects is in the belief that you need to have a "constant" party to vote for. When people's basic needs are covered, the ideology to follow may be a big deal, like it is in developed democracies - hey, are you a republican or a democrat type of thing. But here, the focus should be on outcomes. This ideology or that ideology, let us get it straight, all parties chase and promise the similar set of outcomes for us. They better be doing that. But we like to believe otherwise, or are made to think otherwise, thanks to yes - this overly covered topic of 'oh see, how bad our politics and politicians are'!

cheers,

SB aka Pranav

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I think Krishna Byregowda is quite right when he states that factors such as Religion, Cast, Literacy, Poverty, etc play a dominant role in our system of elections since the urban educated masses don't bother much about who eventually wins, unlike in most other countries.

What is promised by parties eventually becomes immaterial & remains only for academic interest; who heads the election effort for the party tends to become all important since we certainly are a people that adore figureheads such as Nehru & Gandhi.

The media is only fueling these sentiments. If the collective perception of peoples is focussed on what they would acheive rather than who they are, things might have been vastly different.

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 @IDS

 

Cast Religion and race are not sustainable as per your own statement. Our democracy will be matured the day when these three entities viz Cast Religion and race loose their significance. Indian Society is the sum total of us Indians with the above baggage. There is inequality due to complex issues like social, economic and extreme variations in our behavior. Politics is only a decent vehicle for a democracy to work. We in India are in a fortunate position of having a majority of our population to be young energetic at this juncture. Is there a need to despair? 

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@Murali sir,

I wish you had done it with either Congress or BJP. These are the only two main stream parties. Others do come but go fast. That is what we have seen for some time now. No harm in trying though. I am quite sure you will be able to win on your own. I do sincerely hope that you should win. I wish you all the best. 

Politics (Political Science) I believe is not different than other subjects of Science and Engineering. Political Science is being taught at schools and colleges if I am not wrong. It is also true perhaps that it is not a simple matter to succeed in it. What I mean is it requires talent, training and dedicated hard work to succeed. Early start in political education is advantageous. Being born in a good Neta's family is also a legitimate advantage. It may be perhaps too late for people like me to contribute significantly starting from a scratch. 

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There is inequality due to complex issues like social, economic and extreme variations in our behavior. Politics is only a decent vehicle for a democracy to work. We in India are in a fortunate position of having a majority of our population to be young energetic at this juncture. Is there a need to despair ?

Mr Ananthram,

These social, economic & behavioral variations, not to mention religion & caste categorizations have been the root causes & stumbling blocks for Indian politics to remain what they have been for so long.

Even in east european countries that have now turned democratic, these variations dominate politics - Poland is an example as is Romania.

Having a younger population might just marginally improve the pace toward reduction of these differences, but this alone will not radically change the situation, unless the younger lot speedily recognize the wisdom in shedding off these biases & turn their attention seriously to nation building rather than worry about petty issues such as caste, creed & socio-economic status of individuals.

Thus, I still have reason for despair - though I also have some hope for quicker change.

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PSA sir's comment is an interesting one that I have heard from some other people also.  Why join a party like Lok Satta instead of an established party like the Congress or BJP.  I am sure Murali sir will respond to this comment, but I would like to understand that perspective. Is it possible to change a party / organization that is so thoroughly immersed in the current way of doing business, from within?  My take is that there is probably a better chance of being able to do something in a new organization which has clearly defined goals, good leadership and is full of people with a similar mind set.

Today, I am not sure what the Congress or the BJP stands for and whether they can ever free themselves from the clutches of corruption, greed and lack of a honest system of selecting leaders. So what hope does one man have inside such a party "machinery"?

(disclaimer:  I am a Lok Satta Party member myself, having joined a few months ago).

  

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I am not a student of political science (I dont know why it is called science), but why does any party need a goal? Isnt every party's goal to be the voice of the public? Isnt every worker today serving the party more than he is serving the public? Hasnt the party become an end instead of the means? Why cant there be a party where the mission is defined by federation of ideas from different wards/constituency? Wont this kind of model make it truly representative of society and also ensure the politicians go back to people for decisions instead of taking it on their whims & fancies or more importantly ideology?

Disclaimer: I do not belong to any party but subscribe to a center-right ideology not necessarily that of the BJP

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 @SB - I think that you are oversimplifying the matter.  Politics is also about what direction society will take.  Will it be progressive and liberal or will it turn more conservative.  Will it increase the rifts in society or will it bring people closer?   Is there a consensus on the desired outcomes for society as a whole?   Why should ideology have to wait for basic needs to be met?  

I agree that the media gives far too much attention to the scheming and machinations that take place.  

On the food bit - if however you knew that the restaurant owner had got hold of the property through dubious means would you still patronize the restaurant?  

@IDS - why parties?  Because people tend to occupy different parts of the political spectrum.  And parties being made of people will also start occupying different positions as a collective.  The party's goal is to come to power.  What other goal?  Each party will be the voice of that set of people who find their worldview matching the party's.  Both of us e.g. want progress.  But your definition of progress could very well be different from mine and the means you want to take could also be different.

Srivathsa

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 For human beings, I think parties are a fairly natural evolution. If you take a federation of independents in a legislature, pretty soon, they will start aligning themselves over various issues. Then one comes to a point where for legislative success, you need to be able to assemble a majority by hook or by crook.  At that point, parties really help.  If we had a political scientist among us, maybe that person would be able to throw some light from academic studies.  I think if we are talking a small town or city, parties may not be that important.  However, as the scale of things grows, parties will tend to happen.  Just a theory.

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Well, it needs to be simple. Yes, the ideologies etc matter, but perhaps to those who are beyond the basics and are concerned about quality of life living in our highrises.

Which ideology is best suited to give me my roti, bijli, pani and bandwidth, that is important, perhaps it is. But a tight scrutiny of West Bengal vs Kerala vs Maharashtra vs Gujrat is the education I need to understand the Left vs Right equations. I don't need the RSS remote control and CPM goondagiri talk by the same nominated experts again and again on print and visual media. I don't need to read editorial anecdotes about Jyoti Basu's greatness or lack of it. Talk outcomes, I don't think many people do, neither the media, nor the opposition.

Objective reporting and measurements are backbones of any system, democracy or monarchy. Without it, self-corrections are just not possible. We have this big basic missing, and over done attention to politics over policy or outcomes reflects that.

Beating down politics and politicians is good fashion, but doesn't help us move forward even an inch.

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@SB comments in this thread

Focus on food and how it was cooked is a different thing compared to the focus on the cook. Do you even care about the chef or the owner when you decide to patronize or desert your neighborhood restaurant? I bet not, you and me only care about the food. [1] Objective reporting and measurements are backbones of any system, democracy or monarchy. Without it, self-corrections are just not possible. We have this big basic missing, and over done attention to politics over policy or outcomes reflect that. [2]

IMHO

• How much [politics] is too much?
  • Enabling good governance through proper legislation
    • Requires electing the veteran / honest legislators / parliamentarians. Here political parties and independents come in picture for elections
    • They are peoples reps who get the opportunity to serve the people who elect them
    • Legislation is the responsibility of elected reps at states.
  • Enabling good judiciary for compliance of the existing legislation and punishment for any un lawful activities
  • Enabling good law and order by proper police force
  • The Jan Lok pal bill provides for keeping vigilance on behalf of the nation on proper functioning [without corruption] of the three arms of governance.
• Proof of the pudding is in the eating. good governance makes
  • the society enjoy their freedom
  • safety
  • health etc
• Changing the restaurant is equivalent to changing the incumbent candidate by electing a new one
• Objective reporting? Or factual reporting?  Reporting industry is a different ball game as such. They have to keep their circulation high to attract adds.
• Looks like issues are being mixed up, SB. 

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