A new thread has been created to continue this interesting discussion since IDS has made a very valid observation.

... as Bus day seems to have lost some steam, as visible changes to address things discussed on this and similar posts have stopped happening.

For any successful public transportation system, it is necessary to have good and affordable last mile connectivity. For affordable do not read private cab services(which are providing a great though some, correction, a lot of people would say expensive service) but flag down auto rickshaws and taxis that operate as per set tarriffs (not one and a half times or 50 Rs extra).

The investment in good quality infrastrucuture in terms of modern bus fleets etc., and the cost and environmental benefits of the same get negated when the commute for the last 3 or 4 kms from the bus stand becomes a torture with the auto charging exhorbitant prices, which are at times more than the cost of the entire distance(bus + auto commute) covered in a personal four wheeler. That is to say when they agree to go to the requested destination at all.

I am sure that if reasonable last mile connectivity is available, no one would be inclined to undertake the hassle of driving through rush hour and heavy traffic only to end up struggling for a parking!

I'm not a daily commuter, but use buses infrequently.

Based on my experience, I voted last mile since the nearest two bus terminuses are located about 1.5km away from my home. Only one or two bus routes pass & stop at the bus-stop located closer (0.8km) & thus, the closer bus-stop is inconvenient for use.

I also have some concerns re. reliability & ease of use as scheduling is poor during off-peak times, especially for the one volvo service only for the area (314H). Thus, frequency is poor, though the bus is mostly seen full.

I voted for "Unreliable Service and Schedule"...  Amongst the available options, this is what was the biggest problem I have faced with buses.

I would like to see one more option "Too many routes to understand/remember"..

Take the 201 series for example, there may be over 20 routes in this series. The same holds good with the 210 series.. 500 series, 600 series etc.. So much so, we are now having two letter suffixes on some of these routes (210-IA for example...) We have run out of all options from A-Z.. and hence we have started off two letter suffixes. All these buses ply in the same in similar routes, but you will never understand which road the bus takes in which locality. If only we could get over this nuisance..

We could rather have 2-3 trunk routes within a series. All the rest should become feeder services for these routes. That will help reduce the number of routes we have to be aware of. Not just that, these feeders will be good feeders for other trunk routes as well..

The system at present aims at providing connectivity to all areas from the central bus stand mainly majestic atleast twice a day. That was the aim of many routes that came up.

Many routes coming up actually gives the option to substitute one route for another. The presence of Hosur road routes connecting Koramangla Water tank from corporation gave me the chance to take one of them today avoiding the detorous 171,173 routes.

Route understanding is quite easy because only the people in that particular area require the exact route. Others can understand whether the routes will touch a particular area or not.I have already posted my analysis of the various routes on the important roads of Bangalore under the topic"Notes on bus day".

If u closely analyse the double suffix routes,the route followed by that bus will be same as the single suffixed one only. Eg: Volvo 500K,KA,KB,KC all follow the same route to Banashankari from ITPL. so are 600KA,KB,KC. 210IA has same route as 210I with the only difference being IA goes via Jayanagar(A small deviation via Jayanagar)

If u closely analyse the double suffix routes,the route followed by that bus will be same as the single suffixed one only

Is there an inconsistency? Usually the route number will have a suffix if it has the same origin & destination but takes a deviation to serve nearby areas along the way. If 2 buses take the same route then they shouldnt have different suffixes. By this logic double character suffixes means for the same origin & destination pair there are more than 26 different routes (more than 26 different deviations). Is that possible? 

Or did they go for alphabets to make routes appear less than it actually is, feeding our innefficient routing observation?

Srivatsava is spot on when he says that amongst the biggest of problems is the number of routes. Presently there are 1800 odd routes with BMTC trying to serve everyone door-to-door, and landing up with serving no one adequately. The answer plainly lies in direction-orientation routing (instead of the present destination orientation), as brought out here. The only problem with this is that it will require commuters to accept the idea of a few of change-overs. But, with good frequencies that should not be seen as a serious problem. A typical daily commute can then be summarised as at here

Muralidhar Rao

Different people have different opinions. Some want direct buses to their area whereas others want rationalized routes. BMTC would probably have to take a poll and find out what people want before implementing.

 Some want direct buses to their area whereas others want rationalized routes

What is a direct bus? How will you not have a bus if the bus routes were rationalised?

Direct bus is a bus which will connect 2 places directly. Many people expect to travel in the same atleast twice a day to avoid changing of buses. Now in this way a feeder+big-10+feeder will mean people changing buses thrice which may people hate. This might lead to less people travelling by bus.

While standing at a bus stand,when a person enquires a bus to a destination and u ask him to go to an interchanging point,many a times i have noticed the look changes. Pass holders generally do not argue but a non-regular person immediately frowns and tries to look for other means to travel.

Gents,

This is a interesting discussion.. Lets continue on a dedicated thread..

Btw, Please do vote and explain your vote here..

Admins/Moderators.. Can someone please help move this discussion to a fresh thread..

 Now in this way a feeder+big-10+feeder will mean people changing buses thrice 

Todays routes are not built for changeovers and hence will be frustrating. 

Trunk system allows people to have work locations & homes near trunk routes so unnecessary feeders can be avoided. This is why higher FAR near metro is encouraged. So that the inner areas can be devoted to green spaces etc. There will be some cross zonal direct routes if popular destinations lie outside of Trunk based on traffic patterns this may rarely be required if planned properly. 

Best way to determine routes will be to take the big 12+big circle diagram. Identify a few Zones. You can choose to build zones around TTMC's. Superimpose the Metro route and CRS on this so they become trunk also. Then draw routes across the big 12 so each feeder cuts across atleast different 2 trunk routes. It could be any combination of metro, CRS and Big 12 bus stops. We have to ensure to cover only those places which are not within walkable distance of the trunk routes. There will be some local loops if the areas are further from the center and are too big to be connected by 1 bus going across. 

Post this routing you will realize you will rarely need 2 changes (3 buses) to get to where you want to go and you will also get direct buses wich are the feeders which cut across the trunk lines. Only they may not go past the zone or across town.

This is one reason why TTMC needs to be built near a trunk route or is connecting another mode of transport which performs the function of a trunk route. This way each TTMC could become a majestic/shivajinagar type hub for feeders of that zone and also provide a trunk connection to another hub/zone. By building standalone TTMC's only for the Bus we make this more complicated.

PS: Sorry had to get the thoughts into the response, please feel free to move to another appropriate thread

We discussed here about direct connectivity from every area to every other area:

www.praja.in/en/blog/vasanth/2009/09/03/connecting-ttmcs-possible-approach

Surprised to see that last mile isn't the winner so far.

• Very hard to change the bus would be my second pick.
• Bus slower than my car/bike be my third.

 Whitefield & Yeswantpur are examples of how disconnected the TTMC's are with other modes for interchange purposes. In my view, there is no point building a parallel network of TTMCs unless the TTMCs are made to connect to train systems as well.

Here is an example of how a cross feeder can connect to 2 or more modes/hubs. On one side it can connect hebbal and on the other yeswantpur or the city station directly. If you notice the map a couple of more routes around Mathikere, Yeswantpur & RMV layout and you would have connected the entire arch between Hebbal CRS/Metro/HSRL/ring road service & Yeswantpur CRS/Metro/SWR from both these locations there are services connecting rest of Bangalore

I do not have the last mile connectivity problem since my home is at a walking distance to ORR. My office is on ORR and my home is walkable from ORR. Obviously one would expect a very good connectivity. But it is not so due to the disconnects of various 500 series buses. I have to change minimum of 2 buses and sometimes 3 buses which is very hard as SB stated in very poorly planned intersections without any pedestrain facilities such as Silkboard, Marathalli.

Evenings, after 6 it is very hard due to reduced frequency. That is why we see so much anxious crowd near Marathalli, Banashankari and Silkboard anxiously waiting for buses. Also common problem, buses stopping scatterdly.

Third problem is the loss of time due to 'Kai Thoridalli Nilluve' policy adopted by Vajra drivers as well as loss of time as well as money in various changeovers at Silkboard, Marathalli.

I would like to see big circle full circle both A/C as well as non A/C and also express busses (probably at a premium cost to reduce the crowd) which would stop in minimum of stops.

Bus slower than my car/bike be my third

This is interesting problem to analyze. Where I live it takes 40 mins to cover 8 Kms by PT with one change from feeder bus to train. It takes 10 mins by car. This time pattern is standard for most people who dont have both origin & destination along a train line. But most of the city including me still use PT for work and use the car only on weekends/shopping/long drives. Why?

1) It takes the exactly 40 mins everyday and I can plan around this and keep time even for customer meetings. The bus timetables are published online and accessible over mobile so i can get it anytime. Train frequency is 2 mins peak hour. Even tickets can be purchased over mobile and they work for all forms of transport tram, train, bus etc. 

2) It is monetarily expensive to both get into the city by car and park there. Parking kills you in most city centers around the world and then there is congestion charging everytime you pass a gantry somewhere. if you are roaming around the city and dont know where the gantries are, you will rack up a nice bill. Some countries thankfully have a daily cap on congestion charge. There are still traffic jams which may not be as bad as ours but still adds to the time. So it may not be the 10 mins but 20 or 30 depending on the severity of the jam which means there is no way to plan the time around the car travel.

This in summary is how PT is going to be. It will almost always NEVER be faster than car. Especially if it is a bus and not a train travelling uninterrupted on a separate grade. So what made PT preferable. Its the monetary disincentives offered to make car travel difficult and expensive. 

I (and whoever I talk to) just dont know how to find the bus number or timings. BMTC has been saying (for many years) that the new website will have a route search, which it still dont have. If the average techies dont know which bus to take, what would they do? The call centre whenever i tried, did not work (or they speak only Kannada).

I am sorry BMTC is a big black box for me.

- bangaloretechie.

(p.s: BTW, today the new website is down and OLD website is back. http://www.bmtcinfo.com)

Try postin gyour query here: And see if u can get a satisfactory answer

http://jaanlo.com/howto/how-to-bus-route-bmtc-and-timing-information-bangalore

@IDS

The bus timetables are published online and accessible over mobile so i can get it anytime

You are talking of Stockholm, right?

@Murali

Yes this is Stockholm i am talking about, but this is typical of most European cities. 

The following is what they offer in terms of information to the public.

ou can plan your journey using our Journey Planner, which is available in Swedish and English: This provides you with suggested routes between the various stations/stops or addresses. In your route suggestion, you can see a map of where you are starting from or travelling to and of the entire journey. You can also search directly from the map.

Realtime information about your station: For the Metro, the commuter trains, Roslagsbanan and all buses, realtime information is available about your station/stop. This service is also available at mobil.sl.se.

Take your Journey Planner with you: If you have a mobile phone, you can always have your Journey Planner with you. Go to mobil.sl.se and choose English at the home page. 

And they are so confident of keeping time that they offer the following guarantee. 

Travel guarantee: Sometimes the unexpected can happen. If you risk being delayed by 20 minutes, you are entitled to compensation for a taxi journey of a value of up to 800 Swedish kronor, or compensation for tickets with another traffic service provider, if there is another service for the route you are taking.

Also you will notice that all bus, train, tram, boats all are under a single authority. This means Bus service is not trying to undercut the train service and can be tweaked to complement each other. We have to learn to build administrative organizations which are practical and not for satisfying power greed.

You have made a point there. Time/Speed can't be the single biggest criterion in picking PT. Its a combination of the 3 big criteria:

Between the three questions (Compared to my car/bike ...)

1. How much does it cost?
2. How long does it take?
3. How convenient is it?

I put higher weight on #2 because my 30 minutes are worth a lot more than what I may save by using the Bus over my car. Not that we all make this comparison by running numbers in our heads, but the equation would be different for you, Vasanth, Naveen or others.

If you think about it, #3 becomes less of an issue if you make #1 and #2 'appear' more important. #3 is about perception, not hard numbers.

I have to travel all the way from beyond Banashankari to Varthur Road. If I have to commute the entire distance standing in a crowded bus, trying not to lose my balance, I would end up coming to office feeling ready to retire to bed ! 

This would not work for people like me who travel long distances unless the frequency of buses is increased to one every 15 mins, atleast in the rush hours every morn and eve.

A good initiative, though, and am waiting to see how this works out ..! 

Better Feeder services + trunk routes are what we need.

Also, equip this connecting hubs with good parking - not necessarily for cars - but for Bikes and Bicycles - which can be parked without much costs (bikes/cycles occupy much less space and with some multi-level parking system, we can get cater to more in less space).

This combination can also reduce the number of buses ( especially long-direct ones like Vijaynagar to ITPL)

Even a Cycle-Renting option at various feeder nodes who can rent & drop at the connecting hubs at nominal fee (or built into the montly pass) can also generate additional service revenue streams. [for example, as I stay at B G Road and if i can cylce upto Silk Board or BTM Bustand, it will hardly take me 15min to cylce - good for my health as well helps me connect to last mile and take a bus which is not already crowded).