SB

Another point to add would be:

• If Reva/EV sales increase drastically will the power/electricty situation in bangalore worsen?

To have a sustainable network of EVs we need a lot more support for the situation. So pretty much at EVERY petrol station a re charge point is required. Similar to what you said - drop off and take on a new battery. But, these charging stations can be made solar!

So now infact the state has another excuse not to push EVs - increase in consumption of power. So the question is which is a more dire resource to conserve now - Petrol or Power!?

Narayan Gopalan
User Interaction Designer
Bangalore

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SB,

Biggest concern for me is how does it do in flooded roads.  Given how quickly Bangalore roads flood, what happens if the REVA gets in 2 feet of water?  Will the electricals get wiped out?  Will the battery need to be replaced?  They must have thought about it at least post facto.

I think it is quite good for a city circuit.  One way 25 km is more than what the average Bangalorean does I think.  And if your office has a charging facility, you can drive back.  No gear shifting is a big plus as well.

Srivathsa

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(Since I didn't list all of these above), here is the full technical material from their press release

1. Motor: High efficiency Alternating Current Induction Motor
2. Li-ion technology: Safe and efficient Lithium Ion Phosphate (high energy density) batteries with a range of 200 kms per charge
3. iEMS: Proprietary Energy Management System for intelligent management of energy flow, data acquisition, fault detection, user interface and communication
4. Motor Controller: 3 phase induction motor driven by computer based controller. Programmable and adaptable to usage patterns
5. Fast charge Port (optional): Can achieve upto 90% charge in 1 hour
6. Solar panels: Roof mounted solar panels augment drive power and achieve added range 
7. Tele-matics: Remote monitoring of car information
8. GPS: Equipped with powerful global positioning system with inbuilt postal code search, 3D adjustable maps, distance indicator, memory card slots and multiple routing options

And here is a pic from the same press release dated Feb 9. Must be the upcoming Reva, though it looks the same as the present lot. I was curious to see how roof mounted solar panels look, but not so clear in this pic.

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Revas will never appeal to the masses. They are just too expensive - it is like the chicken and egg story - once mass production starts, prices might come down, but for mass production to happen - high demand - prices should be low.

Tax exemptions and duty concessions might help to some extent.

But is EV/Reva really an answer to our problems. A common complaint about electric cars is that they will move the pollution from cities to the location of the power plants - which is indeed true. Also considering that the efficiency of the modern fuel cars are much better than power plants, the net effect is it increases the pollution - defeating the very purpose of EVs.

Solar powered vehicles - probably the best solution - but solar panels (silicons) are very expensive and will screw up the cost benefit equations.

The other thing we generally forget about EVs is the batteries - arent they also ecologically very harmful - in India we dont have a regulated way of disposing of these batteries - i doubt this scenario will change in the near future.

Only way forward - public transport :)

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My wife, daughter and I all have busy schedules (and often in coflict with each other) and so we are seriously looking at buying a Reva as the second car in the family. We had also heard about the new model with extended range (and a regular 4-seater to boot) but when my wife talked to the salesman, she found out that it is not due out for at least another year. Who knows, with the credit crunch it might even take longer for the launch since they might have to set up a new line. My wife asked about an upgrade (or trade in) when the new one comes out. The salesman's mumblings about this did not inspire confidence that it is a distinct possibility.

As stated by others, the EV vs. conventional gas tradeoffs are not that simple. I owned the very first model of the Honda hybrid in the US and felt morally superior until a friend (professor of environmental engg) told me that I was making very little difference by way of reduced carbon footprint. But the confounding thing is that she was not unequivocal about this. With all her training, she was finding it difficult to do a life cycle environmental impact  comparitive analysis on this.

In India, this analysis gets even more convoluted. For example, the act of disposing off the battery is harmful to the environment but could this be offset to some extent by the fact that even the very act of filling gas releases pollutants into the air and the ground. I routinely see gas station attendants overfill tanks and in the process spill a few CCs of the toxic stuff with each top up. Sometimes they do this to get a round  rupee figure on the pump, sometimes they do this to give the feeling to the owner that now the tank is really full and sometimes they do it just for fun!  I used to have to stand guard to make sure this did not happen while my car is filled but by now the guys at the regular station I go to know me -- "the crazy guy who throws a tantrum when I squeeze the last few drops into (actually mostly out) the tank".

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Tata is going to launch Indica Electric with 200 kms range .

Here is the link : http://www.vicky.in/straightfrmtheheart/tatas-indica-electric-to-run-for-200kms-at-single-charge/

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It has been this story on the new Li batteries for more than 3 years now. When I asked them in 2006 they mentioned it was due 2007. I didnt buy the car, I found it too expensive for the benefits it offered. I am surprised we can have nano with engines and all for 1 lakh and we have this EV with no internal combustion engine and paraphernalia costing so much.

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IDS,

Have you done any life cycle cost comparison for a Nano vs. REVA.  I think the major cost for the REVA is the battery pack. 

Here is my approximate attempt at comparing life cycle costs.

Let's assume that a person runs each car for about 50 km/day or about 15000 km/year.

Fuel costs for the REVA - 50p/km(?) or Rs.7500/year.  Running costs for the NANO = Rs.3.50/km or Rs. 50000/year.

Maintenance costs - REVA once in 3 years new battery pack = Rs.50000 or Rs.17000/year.  NANO will need oil changes, spark plug changes, etc - 3 services/year = rs.7500/year.

Over 6 years - running costs for REVA = 145,000-150,000.  NANO - 350,000 or so.  (Assume tyre changes, etc even out for both).

Initial investment in REVA - Rs.300,000.  NANO - Rs.125,000. 

Total life cycle costs - Rs. 450,000 for REVA and Rs. 475000 for NANO.

For me the best electric vehicle created is this

No ownership costs.  Average cost/km will be in the Re.1 range.

Srivathsa

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Srivathsa,

While your working tells me TCO is lower. It doesnt change my view that the physical benefits it offers for the upfront cost is not valuable to me. Its a eyes-of-the-beholder thing not numbers which put me of. 

Lifecycle costs do not explain why the upfront cost is higher. Do you THINK it is because of the battery or do you KNOW for sure?

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Hi All,

I think there is one fundamental issue here that has been missing. I think it is incorrect to compare electric vehicles with petrol vehicles as the later are polluting each time they run & in much higher volumes.
Whilst all types of vehicles do pollute, electric vehicles pollute the least per kilometer run when compared with an equivalent petrol or CNG vehicle. This is because electricity that is needed for a vehicle recharge is produced with much lesser emmission than pollution by road vehicles. Battery disposal would also be much less environment unfriendly than continuous emmission by petrol-driven vehicles. This is perhaps why attempts to produce them have not ceased, & in fact, most car makers have been competing with one another to develop electric cars.
Unfortunately, battery technology has not progressed much & is pretty much the same as it was about 30-40 years ago, though some maintenance-free versions are now being made. Thus, the attention has now shifted to develop hybrid versions to overcome the lacuna with batteries.
As Srivatsa mentioned, of course public transport is the least polluting on a per person per kilometer basis, for sure.

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what is the future of electric cars in India?

Thanks,

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