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Metro - coverage comparision with some cities

Here is a simple comparison of the coverage various metros in the world provide and where we should be going. It is important to be developing a network that covers more areas and enables last mile connectivity and feeder services to be more effective. Future lines can be planned now and identified on the map to enable proper planning of the areas and acqusition of property.

Bangalore metro

And look at the maps of some european metros below and see how they cover.

Stockholm metro

Copenhagen metro

Berlin metro

Paris metro

Singapore metro

London metro

COMMENTS

Tokyo rail network

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 09:24

Tokyo mass transit services 27.4 million passengers everyday [Source] and the network that does that looks like this

Our metro network looks like childs play in perspective. If people put up their feet and relax after reach 1 is completed you will know we have not even begun. If you thought the trees that are going now or the shops that are acquired now are too much, wait till the network starts looking like this.

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Incorrect Comparison??

Srivatsava - 6 March, 2009 - 11:55

Good attempt Idiotspam,

Though I am not aware of other cities, I can safely comment that the Singapore Metro map shown here includes a lot of future lines. Work on three of the seven merto lines shown here will not start for the next five years. Three of these are now operational and work on the circle line has been in progess for too long now and will be not be completed before 2011. Having stayed in Singapore for the past 18 months and extensively used the public transport systems there (btw, I am planning a post on how better the bus system is in Bangalore!!), I would want to opine that the comparative pictures you have put up are not proper.

Another reson why I believe that this is incorrect comparison. The Singapore map shown here includes the metro map and the feeder LRT sections. But the one for bangalore is only the Metro lines. If you add all the 'proposed' monorail routes, it looks a lot more complete, probably a little too excessive.

There is already talk of a fourth line to Whitefield. Add a few monorails line proposed by Scomi. Yes, I agree we have just started.

-Srivatsava V

http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com/

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What are we comparing?

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 13:13

The image might be incorrect but the comparision is not. Even a current state singapore metro map will serve singapore better than our metro does for Bangalore. Bottomline we need to see how rest of Bangalore need to be covered by metro/other train backbone service.

Here is the mono overlaid map

Let us look at numbers

Singapore carries 4.5 mil daily on its bus+metro combined for a population of 4.5mil. While BMTC alone carries 3.7 mil daily for its 8 mil population. Tokyo carries 27.4 mil daily for its resident 12.5 mil population. We should look at how Tokyo is doing it and learn some lessons. No wonder their network looks like a spaghetti.

Secondly I do not believe the metro extensions are being planned properly. We can fork out the metro end points. See stockholm and paris lines. Their lines branch out after a few common stops to serve different end points along the same direction.

What are areas currently uncovered do you think can be served by forking out the current metro lines?

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Good Attempt - It's Early Days !

Naveen - 6 March, 2009 - 14:30

IDS - Most informative.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, these complicated networks have evolved over a long time, whilst we are only just about beginning. The costs & land issues are also much more complex in our cities than abroad.

I dont think it will be possible to build such systems very fast - some have taken over a hundred years to emerge into what they are today !

I had the opportunity to see bangalore metro's planned future alignments which also has forks as suggested by you - in fact, Delhi metro's lines are also going to have such branches to improve connectivity. All this is going to take time, though.

They first have to have the spine laid out & then make additions as necessary, which I think they will in the future.

The ridership nos. with BMTC being only 3.7 million is because of inefficiency due to heavy loads on the roads & lack of punctuality by buses. Once some mass transit systems are in place, these nos. are bound to increase as dependence on private transport will reduce.

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Short term solution?

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 14:59

I dont think it will be possible to build such systems very fast - some have taken over a hundred years to emerge into what they are today

This is a very good point. If we think it is going to take us that long to serve the population of Bangalore using trains then it cannot be a solution in the short term. What then will bump up that 3.7 million to atleast serve 8 million without running buses one behind the other all over town and bringing down the road system? it is the 8 minus 3.7 million that is clogging up the roads today? What is going to get them out of their cars? Clearly there is no answer now.

Big 10 dropping off SB on airport road is not going to help him get to bagmane. Sanjay nagar to Bagmane for Navshot is a no go right now. For me Sanjay nagar to mg road is a no go even if metro comes on line the way it is planned now. There are more such cases with no solution. Where are the answers?

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Mass Transits cannot cater to each Individual

Naveen - 7 March, 2009 - 02:09

The development of mass-transits (for bangalore, or any other city) cannot cater to all individual requirements immediately. Typically, the first routes installed are usually the ones that are along where the maximum needs are or where the highest loads of commuters exist.

Bangalore’s mass-transit has been in the planning stages from a long time, but due to continued debate about system suitability & finances, it has only just commenced.

(See: http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/naveen/2008/10/27/bangalore-mass-transit-summary-past-study-reports).

It is also well known that public transport cannot cater to the convenience of every individual. At best, it can only be designed as a compromise for the best needs of all individuals put together.

Whilst the first systems in the world (London, Berlin, New York) took a long time to be developed, Asian systems that came up later (Japanese cities, Seoul, Hong kong, Singapore, Beijing, Shanghai) have developed much faster due to rapid economic progress & readily available, tested technologies.

The history of urban mass-transits in India began only in late-1984 with the opening of a small section of the Kolkata Metro. There was no progress in any other city until end-2002, when the first section of Delhi metro began operations. Thus, India’s “march” has only just begun, but may pick up pace soon.

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Big picture in examples

idontspam - 7 March, 2009 - 08:39

I was hoping you would see a broader picture in the individual examples which was to think about short term solutions to bring connectivity to within 500 mtrs of every locality (or atomic unit of our choice) so as to enable a person stepping out to make the journey entirely on PT.

But I agree we may build faster than 100 years. So I would assume all this hue and cry of getting people off the cars and into PT will have to wait.

Is there data on area wise commercial and residential population? If that were plotted as heat map then we may be able to see where to focus. Does BBMP/BMTC have this data?

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Moving to mass transit

idontspam - 9 March, 2009 - 18:03

NY wants to stimulate high-speed rail

A 25 percent improvement in freight service would reduce truck traffic along state roads and reduce energy consumption.

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Mantra....

srinidhi - 10 March, 2009 - 11:26

Connect all the BD's(business districts) by metro or build BD's around metro stations should be the mantra!

Ideally private transport should become the last option for all in the city..currently its the first and public transport is the last..the main reason in my case is lack of reliability!

I always dream of traveling closed eyes sitting in a train..with a news paper under my arm and getting home within an hour!

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Re: Incorrect Comparison??

innocentspirit - 17 March, 2009 - 22:53

A little off the topic, taking a look at the berlin and London maps presented here, I get a feeling that we need some software systems to guide us on the routes to take within the city. I am curious to know how people there decide on which interchanges to use to travel from one station to another. Sometimes, if you have too many possible ways, you may not understand what will be right route at what point of the day!!

Sri,

Most people use the TFL (Transport for London) website to plan journeys to some new places which might involve interchanges at one or more stations to begin with. If there are many ways of getting from Station A to Station B and involves same number of interchanges - after a certain point in time most London tube users would know which lines travel faster than the others and prefer the faster ones. For eg, I know from experience that the Piccadilly line is much faster than the District or the Circle line - don't know the exact reason as to why the former is faster - I would like to assume that since Piccadilly is the line which runs to Heathrow it is vital that it is faster than the rest of the lines(this is just my guess and I could be wrong here).

idontspam - the london tube map you have published is slightly an old one - probably by around a year or more. I tried to attach the latest map for reference and could not.

Thanks,
IS.

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Commuter dynamics

asj - 18 March, 2009 - 13:17

Piccadilly is not any faster between stations, its just that Piccadilly does not stop at 5 stations covered by District line (although the Piccadilly runs past these station platforms).

Heathrow extensions happened only in the 80s!!

And only a fraction of commuters have anything to do with the airport.

I take the Piccadilly from Hounslow East to Central London, 4th station, yet in the morning rush hour the trains arrive packed.

Now Piccadilly has two lines that merge at Acton Town - the trains coming from Uxbridge are less crowded. When one train from Uxbridge and one from Heathrow arrive on adjacent platforms of Acton Town (there is a bottle neck ahead as these trains share one track to central London) paradoxically, the train from Uxbridge is allowed to go ahead first (one would think of getting more people coming via Heathrow are served better if their train is given a green) - this is because Heathrow trains are so packed that sending a less crowded train just ahead of it helps its passengers (by avoiding over crowding).

If Piccadilly from Heathrow started stopping at the 5 stations District line stops on then the Piccadilly service will become like Mumbai locals (we are nearly there). It makes full sense that District line which is less crowded covers these stops.

But in general we need to be realistic about the trains - it takes me 35 minutes peak time station to station from Hounslow East to Hammersmith, add 20 minutes for walking to and fro stations. Still worse, in the maze of tube trains, destinations are not always on the tube line you start your journey on. Thus if I need to take Hammersmith and City to Paddington - I spend 8 minutes just walking between two tube lines, then add further 5 - 7 minutes wait for a train.

That trains are faster is an illusion - the reasons why people in London choose public transport (and more people choose the bus, 3 million more) is a completely different ball game.

None of our cities have any idea about commuter dynamics, we just do not have the data to use computers / software to do proper modelling of same.

ASJ

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FAR higher metro

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:51

Regulation 3.16 (ix) under Chapter 3 – Regulations applicable to all Zones – came to be amended as follows: Areas within a distance of 150 metres from the outer boundary of the metro station/ terminal, subject to the confirmation from the Bangalore Metro Rail Corporation Ltd., (BMRCL), will be eligible for a maximum FAR of four for all permissible use, irrespective of the FAR applicable for the respective uses in the respective tables - Source

Good move I would say.. Instead of having fancy roofs on the overhead stations, BMRC can put it to good use by constructing a building. The metro can go in do its duties and out of the building.

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Moscow style for Bengaluru?

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:57

Moscow's metro system is an excellent example for the circle-radial network type. This could work for Bangalore which can grow in all directions. The current E-W, N-S is not sufficient. After the radial build out happens maybe the KS could be the circle line with double articulated buses. Or a Light rail on the ORR.

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Metro - coverage comparision with some cities

Bangalore metro

And look at the maps of some european metros below and see how they cover.

Stockholm metro

Copenhagen metro

Berlin metro

Paris metro

Singapore metro

London metro

COMMENTS

Tokyo rail network

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 09:24

Tokyo mass transit services 27.4 million passengers everyday [Source] and the network that does that looks like this

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Incorrect Comparison??

Srivatsava - 6 March, 2009 - 11:55

Good attempt Idiotspam,

There is already talk of a fourth line to Whitefield. Add a few monorails line proposed by Scomi. Yes, I agree we have just started.

-Srivatsava V

http://srivatsava-vajapeyam.blogspot.com/

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What are we comparing?

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 13:13

Here is the mono overlaid map

Let us look at numbers

What are areas currently uncovered do you think can be served by forking out the current metro lines?

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Good Attempt - It's Early Days !

Naveen - 6 March, 2009 - 14:30

IDS - Most informative.

I dont think it will be possible to build such systems very fast - some have taken over a hundred years to emerge into what they are today !

They first have to have the spine laid out & then make additions as necessary, which I think they will in the future.

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Short term solution?

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 14:59

I dont think it will be possible to build such systems very fast - some have taken over a hundred years to emerge into what they are today

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Mass Transits cannot cater to each Individual

Naveen - 7 March, 2009 - 02:09

Bangalore’s mass-transit has been in the planning stages from a long time, but due to continued debate about system suitability & finances, it has only just commenced.

(See: http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/naveen/2008/10/27/bangalore-mass-transit-summary-past-study-reports).

It is also well known that public transport cannot cater to the convenience of every individual. At best, it can only be designed as a compromise for the best needs of all individuals put together.

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Big picture in examples

idontspam - 7 March, 2009 - 08:39

But I agree we may build faster than 100 years. So I would assume all this hue and cry of getting people off the cars and into PT will have to wait.

Is there data on area wise commercial and residential population? If that were plotted as heat map then we may be able to see where to focus. Does BBMP/BMTC have this data?

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Moving to mass transit

idontspam - 9 March, 2009 - 18:03

NY wants to stimulate high-speed rail

A 25 percent improvement in freight service would reduce truck traffic along state roads and reduce energy consumption.

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Mantra....

srinidhi - 10 March, 2009 - 11:26

Connect all the BD's(business districts) by metro or build BD's around metro stations should be the mantra!

Ideally private transport should become the last option for all in the city..currently its the first and public transport is the last..the main reason in my case is lack of reliability!

I always dream of traveling closed eyes sitting in a train..with a news paper under my arm and getting home within an hour!

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Re: Incorrect Comparison??

innocentspirit - 17 March, 2009 - 22:53

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Commuter dynamics

asj - 18 March, 2009 - 13:17

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FAR higher metro

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:51

Good move I would say.. Instead of having fancy roofs on the overhead stations, BMRC can put it to good use by constructing a building. The metro can go in do its duties and out of the building.

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Moscow style for Bengaluru?

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:57

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Metro - coverage comparision with some cities

COMMENTS

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 09:24

Srivatsava - 6 March, 2009 - 11:55

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 13:13

Naveen - 6 March, 2009 - 14:30

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 14:59

Naveen - 7 March, 2009 - 02:09

idontspam - 7 March, 2009 - 08:39

idontspam - 9 March, 2009 - 18:03

srinidhi - 10 March, 2009 - 11:26

innocentspirit - 17 March, 2009 - 22:53

asj - 18 March, 2009 - 13:17

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:51

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:57

PRAJA.IN COMMENT GUIDELINES

Metro - coverage comparision with some cities

COMMENTS

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 09:24

Srivatsava - 6 March, 2009 - 11:55

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 13:13

Naveen - 6 March, 2009 - 14:30

idontspam - 6 March, 2009 - 14:59

Naveen - 7 March, 2009 - 02:09

idontspam - 7 March, 2009 - 08:39

idontspam - 9 March, 2009 - 18:03

srinidhi - 10 March, 2009 - 11:26

innocentspirit - 17 March, 2009 - 22:53

asj - 18 March, 2009 - 13:17

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:51

idontspam - 19 March, 2009 - 17:57

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