I am tempted to try, but how to carry a bike in a BMTC bus?

Somebody pointed out there isnt even a stop request button on the buses which is standard everywhere.

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Instead of runing services (hired from BMTC?) from all over Bengaluru to Bagmane Tech park, the Tech Park itself needs to run just some shuttles to pull in people from nearby corridors

This is the exact same suggestion I gave my company admin seeking suggestions to cut down on transportation costs. Instead of running shuttles and cabs all over the city I suggested just focussing on last mile connectivity. Just run a shuttle from the nearest trunk route.

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 SB

Not sure what is Big-10. I am not able to figure out why so much of struggle to do the research on travel time with busses, especially the Big-10.

I do agree that there is an urgent need for sustainable transport in cities like Bangalore in India. Karnataka government has taken the much needed step in right direction by setting up Cistup. Sri Upendra Tripathy earlier principle secretary was instrumental in setting up Cistup.

I talked to Prof TG Setharam head civil engg dept IISc who is in charge of the Cistup initiative.  I am trying to get an appointment for Praja with him on this burning issue. He has promised to give an appointment to us on his return from abroad.

Some light has started dawning as far as I am concerned on this sustainable transport myth, which I am eager to share with praja. I think I should make a power point presentation and put it on Praja web site. Will give it a try.

PSA

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SB,

This is great report!

I think, as you mentioned, ideally we need to have a single public transport system (which is a combination of metro, BMTC, etc) that caters to everyone. But the truth is, we are not there yet. And worse, we won't be there even when Metro would be there. This is for the simple reason that Big-10, Metro and such won't adress connectivity all across the city. For example, how am I supposed to travel from Sanjayanagar to Bagmane Tech Park (I too work here!)? No metro is planned near my home (nearest station is about 5-6 km away) and no Big-10 route that connects these. I'm sure there are a number of areas in Bangalore that fall into this category. We still need to improve our conventional grid/point-to-point BMTC routes.

On the last mile from Metro station, I'm with you. The tech park better provide shuttle service.

-- navshot

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I supposed to travel from Sanjayanagar to Bagmane Tech Park (I too work here!)? No metro is planned near my home (nearest station is about 5-6 km away) and no Big-10 route that connects these

Bellary road Big 10 would start soon. But from your home you will need a local shuttle to reach bellary road and then transfer to big 10 and then to KS to another airport road Big 10 and then your office shuttle. By then half the day would be over.

If the entire mass transit solution is designed properly, you should ideally have one shuttle from home to metro or LRT or Mono or whatever and then another from the destination station to office. Not more than 2 changes.

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SB :

Many thanks. Your report was very interesting & I feel that the 'last mile' part on office /workplace side must be taken care of collectively by all the firms located there as it is difficult to provide this by BMTC, since BMTC is purely a public service. Likewise, the 'home' end has to be managed by the individual. This may be difficult for some as there may be no convenient buses, but most would find suitable options, hopefully with the fresh thrust on using innovative routes.

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Nice report, SB - thanks! I agree with your key contention. The bus services are all great. The biggest problem is in the pedestrian role and the "last mile" connectivity. My commute, if by bus will typically require a patient wait for the right bus or a change over from ring road to airport -varthur road at Marathalli bridge. It is this part where I have the most pain. To make it monetarily and psychologically painful, my cell phone got pick pocketed at that bus stop once. End of fun! There has been a large increase in Volvos from ITPL to Ring Road - I plan to do some testing beginning next Monday.

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I can't think of the exact pathway just now, but the way I imagine the grid, these 'part-circle' routes should not use Big10. Instead, I am hoping that 3 ring services (concentric) can be operated, and one of those will help you do most the journey quite well, putting you at C V Raman Nagar entrance on Suranjan Das Road.

A

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Refer back to the CCTF report, and perhaps an old model (it had multiple hubs at CBD edges I think) proposed by Mr Parameswaran. The old CCTF Report (available on this site) has some pictures to capture the present situation.

Diagrammatic representation of present system

With Big10 in the picture, the combination of several convergent radial routes, and 2-3 concentric rings, and each point where the Big10 cuts the ring as a TTMC of sorts, and then each of this TTMC hosting local routes - this may be where Prof Ashwin may be headed.

There is not much point in evolving a "best" routing system. There will be several "good enoughs". Implementing one "good enough "system with attention to details (which include last mile at both pick and and drop off ends, and relative speeding up or visible priority for buses, good interchange points where people can walk and change bus-to-bus or bus-to-shuttle) will do.

And, it looks to me that the convergent radial lines with 3 concentric rings could be "good enough". Anywhere to anywhere in one bus change + last mile? And, there will always be multiple commute options (ring first, then radial, or the other way around). This seems possible provided there are enough rings. Only caveat I see is that farther off from the city, the distance between radial routes will be a bit much.

[Prof Ashwin, Murali was planning to organize a Praja meeting with you, hope you will oblige us with a weekend date]

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SB,

 Thanks for the detailed report on your "DAY OUT with BMTC". Your description tells about your generosity in describing experience in riding a BMTC bus.

 As many first hand experiences that has been posted here on Praja, reveals one basic problem with these new services. The experience also tells the truth that, you can't fix the system by adding more fleet and new routes. The intro of HoHo and BIG-10 service is example in the case. It is piggy backing on the major lacunae in the operation run by BMTC. You need fixes in routes, you need fixes in schedule (Start/End timing, frequency), need to fix the supporting infrastructure bus stops, priority on road etc. Unless major exercise is undertaken to correct this systemic failures, steps like HoHo and BIG-10 would be like band-aid to the injuries which requires major surgery. Even though these are well needed service to the city and its commuters.

 I hope services from people like Ashwin and RKM are being utilized to  perform this much needed surgery and rehabilitation.

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This comment has been moved here.

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The point behind posting all the metro maps is that to have an effective BMTC feeder service you need to build a metro backbone which has better coverage. In the Bangalore metro map you will notice major swaths of densely populated residential areas lying uncovered. You will notice half hearted attempts in phase 2 and 3 to do the same. You will need other forms of train networks to connect them to the backbone. See how stockholm and singapore have been using LRT to fill the gaps.

In the sanjaynagar example the nearest metro station is in Yeswantpur. Even if you want to travel east you will first have to go west before going east. Else you have to take a bus to MG road to take the metro to errr. mg road.

But,hey we had to change contractors because they couldnt finish building pillars in 2 years so this is gonna be a loooong wait.

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IDS

These mass-transits (except for Copenhagen, which is new) have eveolved over a long period. The largest networks (viz. London, Berlin, Paris, New York) have been developed over a period of 100 years or more, hence their perfection. In comparison, Indian cities, except for Kolkata are only just getting started. Delhi is the only example where quick construction & implementation has been possible.

I believe that with some experience over a few years, things might speed up & costs may also come down with local expertise in coach making, etc. BEML has already made a start & Bombardier has also established a factory at Vadadora.

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IDS,

You Singapore mRT map is a mix of currently operational (Purple, Red and Green), under construction - (Orange) and future - all other colours.

The Orange line is scheduled to open Jan 2010.  Not sure if is still on track. 

Srivathsa

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SB, Prof Mahesh,

Our auto friends can be roped in for last mile.  Many of them are not the thugs and dacoits that we take them for.   Have a shared auto service from HAL MainGate to BTP (charge Rs.20/head).  Might be worthwhile exploring for some of the Big10 hinterland areas.

Our friend veera_cb might be able to help in this matter.

Srivathsa

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SB,

Why did you wait for a bus?  To the best of my knowledge NO BMTC routes cover that except BIAS 4.   Were you aware of that?  or am I wrong?  I  lived for 23 years on/off Suranjan Das Road and there used to be one PHS service that used to run from BEML area to HAL Main Gate.

Srivathsa

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@ SB,

Thanks for the report. You have highlighted very well the agonising problems faced by last-minute connectivity at the OMR/Varthur Road ends of Suranjan Das Road. At present, Bagmane has several shuttles - as someone working there, could you clarify whether their coverage is comprehensive? Also, the recently-introduced Vajra 201-R seems to be gaining popularity among Bagmane-ites.

Suranjan Das Road presents an altogether curious phenomenon - there ae regular bus services in the middle section, but very few at either end. This is something that seriously needs to be looked into - in the absence of regular buses, autodrivers and private cabs make a killing here. Travel via OMR and you will have the same experience at NGEF.

There is at least one regular bus service - 400A from HAL main gate to KR Pura. But the frequency is abysmal, as there is only one vehicle that operates the route.

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Dude, you can avoid all this by bicycling to office.  No more fight with these rikshawalas, no more waiting for the crowded bus.  And always ahead in the slow moving traffic, avoiding pollution and there comes healthier life as well!!

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Thanks folks for the nice words.

I did see some routes (314B?, 400A coming from KR Puram side on OMR, 201R too I think, or not sure if it turns towards Tippasandra, and one more 333 something).

Savitha - your suggestion is nice, but if you add "space for carrying bicycles in buses" to the mix, that would make it more practical. Compared to a full 13 km ride on the bike, I am quite game for this:

• Home to bus stand in a bike (1 km)
• Park the bike in a Big10, off to HAL bus stand (8 km)
• Get off at HAL, and bike on to Bagmane office (4 km?)

I am tempted to try, but how to carry a bike in a BMTC bus? Wish the Big10 buses had bike stands in the front.

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Worried about old age, suffering, illness?  Don't follow the Buddha's method.  Just ride a bicycle in Bangalore and all those problems will be eliminated along with you. 

SB - the next time you are in the US or Singapore you should try and pick up a foldable bike.  http://www.dahon.com/ or this http://jz88.com/

All they need are a couple of racks like the VV buses and this could be a perfectly viable option.  But if pigs had wings they would fly too.

Srivathsa

BTW 314 B turns right at JB Nagar, 201R likely the same, 333E turns left at JB Nagar. 

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I do commute 30kms a day by bicyle.  Its 15 km for me each way.  Happen to be + or - 10 mins than i used to be with my scooty.  I don't say I am doing it daily, but 3 days a week definitely.  I don't feel tired, instead i feel fresh.   You just need to start early 8 am or before.  Give it a try, parking ur bike in big 10 or by buying foldable bikes.  And pls share your experience.  Might be helpful for many of us :)

I doubt, if we can expect much out of BMTC as its always full, no space to stand!

PS:  You get foldable bikes in India too!! Strida

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SB - Foldables are available in India too.

I have been investigating this (as I am planning to buy one too) & came across Strida - a bit expensive, but really light & easy to handle - just the sort of thing to pack & cart on to a train or bus - I saw quite a few people doing this in copenhagen on the new metro there.

If you need further details, I can post after I return from chennai (20th).

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Savitha,
Thanks for sharing your experience with cycling. There many journey's in London where cycle beats the tube trains (and I am referring to 8-10 mile long distances). TFL stats suggest that 209 tube journeys are quicker by foot (once you factor in time taken to walk to and fro from stations, going up and down stairs and escalators, waiting for trains, time taken at inter-changes......)!!

Buses are as good as tube trains, though slower, they keep walking time to minimum by way of door to door service (a good bus based PT is exactly that) in contrast to tube train stations which are much further away, hence overall travel time is not hugely different (but ticket costs are, buses are much cheaper). But buses that stick to major routes and leave you helpless and dependent on so called last mile connectivity are examples of irrational planning and complete lack of understanding of commuter dynamics.

We need a BEST like service in our cities, combine it with a Velib like bicycle hire scheme and we will have a winner (London too will have 6k bicycles on hire basis in 2 years time).

ASJ

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Lets check with BMTC on possibilities for front mounted bike stands. These stands take 3-4 bikes, the bikes will just jut out (or hang out) in front of the bus. It will be worth for BMTC to make a start, those who want to save the money or hassle of last mile auto ride would be interested.

Let us bring this up in meeting with Prof Mahesh. Srinidhi told me that these stands cost around 20K each. There will be some  minor extra cost in mounting these in front of the buses.

Can have this in 50% of big10 (the new Ashok Leyland buses), and the Volvo buses. can also ask Ashok Leyland and Volvo to have this included as part of standard fixtures (assuming they are building the body as well, and not BMTC themselves)

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Somehow, the concept of front-mounted bike stands makes me a little uneasy. What if the bus collides with something in front (have experienced this a couple of times)? Even worse, if the bike or the entire stand falls off on a bumpy stretch or while taking a turn? IMHO, foldable bikes are safer.

BTW, could you post pics or links to pics of these stands so that there is a little more clarity about what exactly they are?

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[flickr-photo:id=3367059973,size=m]

These racks are pretty safe and fool proof..its indeed a good idea to have them on these busses!

However considering the sheer number of bus users we have..I dont think its the right solution for the empty big10 busses..

I guess we need to make big10 the only option to reach whereever..in SB's case if he wanted to go from HAL airport to CV raman nagar..there needs to be shuttles only btwn those two two points and commuters from CV raman nagar/Basava nagar/kaggadasapura who want to get into the city need to change at HAL aiport always..

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Hi,

I am not sure this will work in our city (& country), though it can be tested on a few buses to see how it works.

The best solution is to provide a space within the bus to stow foldables. Though foldables are now expensive, prices might come down if the market for such bicycles increases & Indian bicycle makers take it up & improve designs & make them lightweight.

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