He has spent my quota of what goes in the hundi. I am done for the year.

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How is making reservation exclusive to hindus being secular?

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I almost had a heart attack reading this in the newspaper.  How exciting!  A CM leading us on the way to darkness.  I thought God was supposed to help those who helped themselves!   I think he has taken the Government's Work is God's Work a a bit too literally. 

Why do we need power projects?  Just pray and your homes will light up.  Why do we need BMTC buses?  Just believe in God (a Hindu one ideally) and you will sprout wings and fly.  Why go out and work and earn a livelihood?  Just pray a bit more.  What a joke!

If he believes in God, let him give his money to the mathas and temples.  He is free to. 

Does this not go against the principles in our Constitution? 

Srivathsa

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Rithesh, Yajaman,

What a farce ! This is clearly with an eye on hindu votes. Temples are trusts that are generating huge funds & contributions. They do not need any from the govt & are better left untouched since there will be social & religion issues to deal with.

This needs to be questioned & condemned severely, & is similar to Mayawati rebuilding the secretariat after demolishing the new structure because it had not met her vaastu specs.

Our leaders are no different !

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BSY is free to spend his resources on what he belives in, after his work hours. Just like you and me. But what authority does he have to use public funds to promote Gods mercy on us? Better still, how does he know the almighty God would be pleased by him allocating 130 crores of our money?

I remember similar incidences when some previous politicians sponsored yagnas and poojas for rains. Again, as long as they are privately sponsored and conducted, who am I to ask. But it is a different story when public funds are involved.

I was happy to read that BSY wasn't going to let his birthday be celebrated. But it lasted only until I read somewhere that he was flying to Thirupathy on a special jet with few of his cabinet colleagues.

I hope we will get to see sanity and practical wisdom prevail some day during our lifetime.

Ravi

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Politics and religion - it is one of those explosive mixtures. The govt has to set right its priorities. We have many burning issues to be solved - as Yajamana says our government has taken "Government's Work is God's Work" a bit too literally. You dont have to move very far off from Bangalore to see the state of poverty we are facing.

Shouldnt the government be wooing people with promises on development rather than religion and caste issues?

Be it these Matta and temple spending or sponsoring the Haj pilgrimage - everything should be stopped. The Mujarai and Haj departments should be scraped. Religion should be a personal affair - that way it is better for us and the society.

Can we hope for a law that will official separate the government and religion/religious institutions or is it too much to expect? (I thought we were official a secular country and this was implicitly assumed - but that does not seam to be the case).

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/India-tops-world-hunger-chart/articleshow/4197047.cms

India Tops world hunger chart.  India shining?

This lot has probably sinned a lot.  They need more prayers. 

"Brought out by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP), the report points to some staggering figures. More than 27% of the world's undernourished population lives in India while 43% of children (under 5 years) in the country are underweight. The figure is among the highest in the world and is much higher than the global average of 25% and also higher than sub-Saharan Africa's figure of 28%. "
 

Srivathsa

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If you do not want to give grants to mathas and temples, then wind up the Muzrai Department. Justice M Rama Jois suggested an autonomus District Dharmika Parishat in place which would administer Muzrai (Govt) temples.

Hang over from the pseudo-secular era.

Wind up reservation for muslims and haj subsidies - if you have the guts.

Edited.  No need to fan flames here please.

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MC,

I can very well argue that this is pseudo religious and just vote bank politics. 

Pseudo as a prefix has been nicely monopolized by one party to attack anything in the constitution that they don't agree with. 

We should do away with all government interference/support of religious activities by the government.  No need for Haj support as well.   What business does the government have supporting temples?  Is this Muzrai department a new creation?

Srivathsa

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Its really sad that somehow the whole notion of a secular government has collapsed. And I think the real victims of this are secular, urban middle class who form no vote bank.

At some level, of course they cannot complain - salaries have been increasing quite a bit over the last few years and material comforts have increased. Certainly they are much better off than the rural working class.

However, the cities are collapsing, infrastructure is non-existent and as a result, while material comforts are higher in many ways quality of life has declined. Innumerable power shortages, water shortage, pollution, garbage, loss of green cover etc are just some of the problems which have gotten worse over the last few years in Bangalore.

Instead of addressing this issue in a serious way the CM wants to spend money on praying for rain ! Ridiculous. Some of these mutts are responsible for much of the destruction of many areas - exploitation of their illegally obtained land, for example. I really dont know what can be done about it though.

Ramesh

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The Govt should completely disband Muzrai, administering temples, mathas etc and even disband itself from Wakf.

Aborgation of all religion based personal laws and implementation of UCC is a must. Reservation should strictly be only on the basis of caste and not religion. Only Hindu SC / ST / OBCs should be allowed to avail the benefit of reservation.

Islam, Sikhism, Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism all do not espouse a caste system and hence do not need caste benefits.

This is a true test of secularism. 

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Hinduism(read Sanatana Dharma) was not a religion, but a way of life born out of search for truth.

The seers of those times were Scientists with their mind as lab and tried giving explanation to various phenomenas in nature and self.

So initially the Vedas document all kinds of rituals to appease Gods who were considered as masters controlling their life.

The same civilization realized the futility of these rituals and these were documented in Vedanta or Upanishads.

So the main thing they concluded and re-inforced by Shankaracharya was "Conciousness is Brahman which is the truth and you are that".  PS:  no God or  it is yourself !!

So what are we fighting for? As sombody said before, We make our destiny (albeit with external factors) and we need to help ourselves. 

Neither BJP nor Congress know what is religion(Dharma), but  have learnt the art to exploit it to their advantage.

Hope the people who vote get to know true meaning of religion and life !!
That way if we reform ourselves, We can save thousands of crores from meaningless rituals.

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The problem in India is that people do not know what secularism means. In India, people think that secularism means giving equal importance to all religions (e.g., since he goes to temples and mutts, he should attend Iftar parties also, since there are religious subsidies provided to a certain community, every community should get the same).

In reality, Secularism means, NO importance to ANY religion. Religion is a private affair, a 'private relationship with god', if you please. The state should not involve itself in religion or religious issues. That is how secularism should be implemented.

The fact that all religious subsidies should be taken away in order to have secularism implemented 'as per the book' does NOT make Yediyurappa's action any less condemnable. 130 crore is a lot. And no matter what terms are bandied about - 'pseudo secular', 'secular-liberal brigade', 'hurt sentiments', etc. etc., the fact remains that it is the cliched "taxpayers' money" that is being used here.

The fact that there are other ways too (subsidies etc.) through which taxpayers' money is squandered does not take away the need to condemn this particular action.

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 What do you secularists expect? Use the money that goes into Hundis  in Temples to fund Haj Subsidy?

It does'nt get more ridiculous than that. 

I dont think taxpayers money is going to Mathas. It was the money we hindus donate to temples that is diverted to Mathas.

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 Banning the Satanic Verses and Dwikhandita (of Taslima Nasreen) is secularism

Promoting works of EVR (Periyar) is secularism

Not providing accomodation even simple one for Amarnath yatris is secularism

Providing for Sharia Law among Muslim ala Shah Bano type is secularism

And so on.

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 Hajj pilgrimage is obligatory on ONLY those who have the financial means and health to perform it. This should be clear to everybody. Therefore Subsidy on Hajj travel doesn't make sense and even it defeats the spiritual requirements for this act. Even from secular point, govt should NOT be paying anything to the pilgrims. Ask any Islamic scholar, they are unanimous in this requirement. Therefore governments should not pay any assistance to the hajj pilgrims.

Now lets look at the reality of Hajj subsidy in India. How does it started? P.V. Narasimha Rao had introduced the subsidy 15 years ago in a bid to bolster his image after demolition of Babari Masjid. Hajj subsidy is paid to airlines on fares of pilgrims. "In the age of liberalization, any airline would be willing to give discounted tickets if it were to get more than one lakh passengers for such a long distance," one Muslim MP said.

 Hajj subsidy was not a subsidy to the pilgrims but actually a "cross subsidy" to the Air India as it makes compulsory for the pilgrims to use the same. The total subsidy paid to each pilgrim is about Rs.10,000 (TEN THOUSAND). The total cost of making this pilgrim trip is about one Lakh, even after the 10k subsidy. the cost of return air ticket to Saudi Arabia is about 20-25k

When a person is spending about 1 lakh for the trip, can't he afford another 10-15k? They will if they know it. The truth is very few among the pilgrim even know that they get a subsidized airfare.

By giving subsidy, the pilgrims were being denied choice of flying private airlines which might offer more attractive packages. Some 1.47 lakh Muslims from India perform Hajj every year. Out of which 50k without any Hajj subsidy.

 So the money is not given to pilgrims or Saudi authority, but given to AIR INDIA. It's a cross subsidy.

 For last few years Muslim leaders, MPs have been asking GOI of India to scrap this subsidy and help in way that paves way for Waqf board or community to take care fo this pilgrimage without govt's financial help. Even Rajya Sabha Chairman made a memorundum to this effect.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/storypage/storypage.aspx?id=15cf0780-6680-4d51-a478-da61c226adb2&&Headline=Muslims+want+Haj+subsidies+scrapped

http://www.kashmirtimes.com/archive/0802/080224/news8.htm

I don't understand predicament of GOI to abolish the Haj Subsidy. Every passing govt just doesn't get courage to abolish, even when the community themselves are asking for it.

Even BJP, who leaves no occasion to bash Muslims, minorities and even raise this issue, during their period did NOTHING to abolish this.

Hope things should be clear on Hajj Subsidy.

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 I wish we can convert this dicussion into a fruitful info session to understand the working of Muzrai, Waqf and allied boards. lets not convert this into Hindu/Muslims, Secularism/Religion, Amarnath yatra/Hajj Subsidy, appeasement of Minorities. etc. Instead lets try to post some informative aspects in teh subject.

 It is time, govt, all of us should try to reform the law that governs these sectors. Laws that would help these boards- Muzrai, Waqf to be self sustainable. Instead of this, each govt is trying to portray that they are helping the respective community. In fact they are not helping the community. In turn they doing more harm to them. Our temples, Mosques, churches, Gurudwara generate enough money, if managed well they not only can be self sustaining, but can also look after few community welfare institutions like Schools/Colleges, Hospitals, Libraries etc.

 I would like to share this info with regard to WAQF. What is waqf? Waqf means to donate something to the use of community. In Islamic realm, means a body/committee which looks after the community assets that its member has donated over the years. The income generated from these assets should be spent on welfare of the community. In India in past 100 years or so, muslim philanthropist has donated 1000 of properties to the WAQF. This is all across India. But tragedy is due to black sheep in the State waqf boards over the years either have sold the waqf land, given in unauthorized leases or even encroached on the Waqf's property. According to experts and community activists, Waqf has enough assets that can generate huge amounts that can be put for better use of the community and the nation. But problem is half of them under litigation. We know how our judicial system works.

Classic example is, WINDSOR MANOR hotel in Bangalore. This hotel is built on land that belongs to Waqf Board. Mysteriously it had 99 years lease and paying a monthly rent of Rs. 5000 P.M. Correct, FIVE THOUSAND. Now the case is in Supreme court. Since the Waqf is managed thru GOK, GOK has to take interest and pursue the case. On top of it, the Waqf Board members should show the sincerity and dedication. Imagine WM is paying paltry 5000, when it charges 10k to 25k per night for room.

 Govt can help these bodies flourish, not by spending tax payer's money, but by enacting laws and fiduciary mechanisms that would prevent THIEFs to scam / scheme a dacoity of people's properties. by encroachment, selling it illegally etc. In this Judiciary system also should give priority to these cases. WM's case is going on for about 20-30 years. Still no sign of final settlement/judgment.

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Even Muzrai property has been encroached on the lines not dissimilar to that of Windsor Manor. The Vidya Mandir School (yes, a school) sits on what was once the Tulasi Thota (Tulasi Garden) of Krishna Temple in 11th Cross Malleswaram.

The A T Ramaswamy Committee takes note of this trend.

Sadly no government, BJP or Congress or any other formation have taken steps to disbanding the Muzrai and Wakf from government control altogether. Exception is the recent report by Justice M Rama Jois which reccomends disbanding the Muzrai and Wakf from state government control and transfering the same to the respective communities.

 

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It is literally money down the drain. Ideally state must separate itself from religion. As someone has stated previously religion should be a private affair with the citizens choosing what they want to do and coming together as a community to do open & fund places of worship.  

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I saw at least 3 full page ads from Congress in todays TOI. They are competing to squander public money.

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