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Srivathsa, I did not, for one minute, think dictatorship is the answer. It is not. No system that does not involve the people at its helm can be successful. A country is too complex at many layers for any individual.

The frustration stems out of the realization that the government and its administration does not do what is in the best interests of the people. Whoever formed the constitution clearly did half a job. The system now exists in such a way where it clearly avoids any kind of accountability from it's side. That’s exactly dictatorship. In India, we believe we are the big democratic country because we have been told so; the system mocks democracy by using some of democracies' way of working and by effectively cheating the people of any real democracy. Democracy now, in people's mind, has taken the form of such confusion about the limits of liberty that it is like a stray dog without a leash. And a leash does not mean anti-democracy. Democracy still should mean 'by the people, for the people and of the people'. Now Indian democracy is clearly run by the opportunist neta in power, making sure systems that evaluate his actions and performance does never enter the existing system, which by the way is an unsaid unanimous agreement between anyone who is concerned with Indian politics- whether it is the ruing party or the opposition. Democracy in India is a collective dictatorship, the power being shared comfortably by few dictators in their own right and the collective work is made to look like democracy. Indian netas behave like swarms of bugs- doing what all the other bugs are doing and hence ensuring its existence. By the way, who are the people in the scene? Obviously they are completely absent. The people only believe they are in charge because they vote. What a laugh.

The issue is much more deadly and critical than any dictatorship can offer. In India, there is no Sadam Hussain to be shot dead to relieve the people or rejuvenate the system. In India, there is no Mussolini or Hitler to target. Cunningly, the target is a swarm of people. I know it is very negative to only complain and not offer constructive solutions, but, alas, i do not see any constructive solution- not that i consider myself eligible to offer one or more. I wish there were Bapus, Nehrus and Netajis- but a version of them who would like to see the complete system, not like the half-baked ones we had. Half-baked because they had their intention and heart in place, but clearly they were hardly the people who were organized sociological engineers eligible to craft a complete system. Indian democracy is like a treatment offered by the nurse for a complicated ailment since the need for the doctor was not known.  India is a hospital full of these nurses, with no doctors. The biggest hospital for sure, but a half-baked one at that.

All attempts to remedy the situation without thinking through the complete process and follow-up will be in vain. What I think might happen- On one hand, the Indian system will constantly try bringing in deterioration and, on the other, the commercialization will constantly try bringing in development. When the later fails to the former, a civil non-cooperation movement will be inevitable (obviously opposed with military suppression). The results of such a struggle will what determine where we go from there. If we willingly, as a collective community, will not set things right for ourselves, internally we will have to go back to where we started from (square one) and start afresh. And that start- if that is also half-baked, we will see the same cycle repeat.

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I agree with Syed, the need of the hour is plain and simple "go out and vote" to become a habit and culture. Otherwise since you dont care, like Devesh says accept the outcome and quit complaining.

You cant force people but you can appeal to their concience. Publish area wise statistics, get as small as possible on exposing the voting percentages and publish the figures. Put embarassing colors to indicate apathy. Hurt the concience so people take more interest in voting. Other than that dont waste time on extraordinary measures, accept the verdict of the people who cared to vote

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  Even after publicising through radio, tv ,internet the response has been very disappointing. One of the reasons many gave was it's not going to make any difference or there are no suitable candidate. But what these people fail to understand is the parties give a lot of importance to voting pattern. Even if significant  number of people voted for Captain Gopinath then it would have put pressure on which ever candidate won to do some work in the constituency since the party sees a change in the mind of the voters.  If the "informed" voters stay away we are giving a free run to all the politicians. Remember once Kumaraswamy said "why should I bother about bangaloreans since most of them do not vote" and caused huge uproar. Unfortunately  it has just remained that, an uproar and no action.

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I am hoping this is 44% of the voters list and not the population. Giving allowance of 2% for accuracy of the list and 8% for people like me who are temporarly out of country. I think it is still pathetic.

EC must look at providing voting patterns by area, after the results are out. all they need is a spreadsheet. It may dispel a lot of prejudices and throw some surprises? There is more guesswork in the below article

Bangalore voters' apathy puzzles candidates, analysts

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We thought that this LS elections, voters had developed -

- an awakening,

- an awareness,

- an enthusiasm, 

- an opportunity to punish erring politicians

- blah, blah, blah.

44.73 per cent turn out - no words to express voters abberation of constitutional right to exercise our sacred franchise.

Who are responsible?  Only a postmartem will reveal the cause of 'death of democracy' in Bengaluru North 46.78, Bengaluru South 44.73 and Bengaluru Central 45.25 per cent.

I for one, am totally disappointed, in particular, with Voters of Bengaluru South, who have admirably proved their Indian citizenship by being in namma Bengaluru.  I always thought that they are more educated, learned, well placed, emboldened with high tech knowledge, highly cultured, responsible and valued sons/daughters of Bharat Mata,...but.....?!%$#* 

- Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

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Low voting percentage is taken by policitical analysts as a sign of "content and happiness". Take that with a pinch of salt, but same thing happened in Bihar, where Nitish's good work lead to fewer people rushing out to vote. (Nitish's work - say this from lots of first hand reports, people not taking as much interest to vote - anecdotal evidence, plus political journalists)

1) So is Bangalore city sitting pretty after the 2008 assembly performance thatt ensured a stable government?

2) Is it the Voter Id registration hassle? It will be good to have stat from EC on percentage of population that registered to vote from various districts. I have heard that registration precentages are higher in rural areas? Why?

• Time relatively more valuable for urban folks, so they can't 'afford' the running around to register?
• Parties take the interest in helping rural folks register, but don't bother to apply their reach in urban areas? They think that rural folks can be "influenced", but not the urban citizens?

3) Have elections lost that "fanfare" and "buzz".? I think the EC may have overdone the curbs on on-ground election campaigns. Illegal political hoardings have started appearing since yesterday, I think we missed them before the elections. Relying solely on Print, TV, Internet for campaign messaging is a bit much. Levels of on-ground publicity by candidates was low, very low. quickfix? Radio, and discounted space for political campaigns in all areas so that people can get the "buzz".

Last, is internet's reach limited? Yes, but it wont be. Just a matter of time. But today, this online world is no good indication of Voter interest and awareness levels. It lacks marketing support. All said and done, online world of Jaago Re has 50000+ members from Bangalore (unofficial stats, overheard - they don't publish such numbers as far as I know), it is thanks to marketing on TV. Jaago Re has seen some criticism this time - don't know whose fault it is though, are they not making the last mile connect with Ec, or is EC not diligent enough (Murali's point).

40% or 60%, personally, I don't think it matters much. SMK, or Ananthkumar, Yeddy, or HDK, its all the same if I don't take interest in issue-based tracking of what the do after they get elected. Taking and generating more interest in local issues is lot more important, after this, interest to go vote in elections will automatically follow.

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 I wish there are more schools like Blossoms in Bangalore which are giving extra marks to students if there parents vote :-)

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/grace-marks-for-students-if-parents-vote/91032-3.html

I think the strict vigilence of election commission on distribution of liquor, money, Sarees has reduced the turnout :-)

On a serious note, this election was fought by main political parties by tarnishing other's image day in and day out on all TV channels. So at the end of campaigning, all politicians are looking so hopeless that many people do not feel like giving their precious votes to anyone. Of course this is not a logical action, but definitely plausible.

Sanjay

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IDS avare'

Why do you ridicule our SEC with the figure of 2% for voter list accuracy? It is a "commendable" 50% - check:   http://praja.in/bangalore/blog/murali772/2008/05/04/subversion-democratic-process

"The Hindu" article has given the number of voters in Bangalore South as 2.03 million. Perhaps the figure is the official one issued by SEC. Now, I wonder if there are figures available for the total population of the constituency, and, out of this, those for the adult population. Only then will we know how much of a representative the chosen one will be.

Muralidhar Rao

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Naveen avare'

I can't understand how there can be any talk of "compulsory" voting in a democracy.

And, while what the experts like Prof Trilochan Sastry have said may have a lot of relevance, the bigger factor in my opinion is the systemic failure - check:   http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/murali772/2009/04/27/voters-apathy-rubbish.

And, for all the effort, if you finally land up having to vote for a Jaffer Sherrif, Anant Kumar or a Kumaraswamy, apathy can be an added factor

Muralidhar Rao

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Why are we fretting about low voter turnout? Why should we be concerned about low voter turnout?

In the absence of Rule 49, not voting is also an act of democracy.

To those who do not vote, I say "I hope you like MY government".

If you work out the dynamics, the winning candidate will get 33% or may be less of the votes cast or effectively 14% of the total vote at best. That means MY vote counts for not just for me, but also for 6 other persons. If we factor in the IT transients and others who have not even registered to vote, this number gets diluted even further. I would hazard a guess even another 30% or even more.

"Decisions are made by those who show up."

"I hope you like MY government."

Let us get beyond this and focus on other things that will truly make a difference in OUR lives.

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD

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Devesh,

The corollary is also true. As saying goes, "In democracy, a bad government is made by those who do not vote". Not voting doesn't necessarily means it is affirmation of ruling dispensation. It also means I am least interested in the present and future dispensation.

Basically we will get the leader that we deserve. We don't care about them. They don't care about us.

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Dear All

"Stating the obvious" is not the solution.

We have been dissecting and conducting postmartems for the last 13 LS elections and we have been failing miserably, the EC is failing, the administrative machinery is failing, blah, blah.  

OK. Let us think of solutions - plausible solutions - to move forward for a realising the dream of real democracy - not a flawed democracy:

My suggestion to whoever forms a government at the center, please do these as your first job in order to prove that you mean business -

1. After all of you have /*'sworn'*/,  at the inaugural parliament session itself, constitute a Committee on Electoral Reforms to examine all the pending electoral reforms proposals  forwarded by the Election Commission in the past and also such proposals sent by certain luminaries like LK Jain and others.

2. Also invite online suggestions from citizens - fix time frame for the Committee to prepare draft proposal of its list of reforms.

3. Publicise the list for public consumption and subject it for all kinds of debates - fix a time frame - based on the feed back, committee to finalise the Report on Electoral Reforms (2009) and submit it to Government.

4. Government to examine it, make necessary changes, if necessary in consultation with the Committee on Electoral Reforms place it on the table of the parliament - immediately fix certain days for debating the report by involving all political parties etc., 

5. Simultaneously propose necessary ordnances for amending the relevant articles of the constitution- amendments to the Peoples Representative Act and the modus operandi of implementing them through extraordinary gazettee notifications. 

Such fast track implementation of Electoral Reforms will instil a sense of confidence in the minds of the citizens and ensure that their vote will not go waste but

-  the ills of democracy will be minimised,

-  criminals will barred from contesting,

-  poll code violators will be debarred,

-  voting will be made either compulsory or incentives will be offered to to citizens for voting,

-  jumping jacks will be jettisoned from party and parliament/assembly,

-  party hoppers will perish permanently

-  recall of the unfit will ensure transparency and accountability

-  people will come forward for voting because there is a real democracy to be governed

-  scientific issue of EPIC with multipurpose usage will make it attractive.

-  technology based voting facility will enable people to vote enthusiastically  - bio-metric voting system - iris contact based online voting, left hand thumb impression identified voting facility, online voting with the help of credit/debit cards or ATM cards, voting through mobiles with built in safety and security firewalls for ensuring secrecy. 

- All are welcome to add their ONE LINE electoral reforms proposals from here and now itself.

After all it is the purpose and responsibility of all Prajegalu.

-Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

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Mr.Murali,

1) I hope you are aware that the voter turnout percentage/s reported in the press are based on names registered on electoral rolls & does not include those that were excluded from them. Thus, voters' apathy is the main cause for the poor turnout as these voter turnout figures exclude names of those that were unfortunate not to have been registered for whatever reasons.

I think holding on to one reason (that of failure by SEC to include all names & issue EPIC cards to everyone in time) as the only cause & rubbishing other reason/s is of dubious rationale, though it might have contributed to some extent, no doubt.

2) Nobody said anything about "compulsory" voting as you seem to have interpreted from what I said. If encouragement & incentives can be given for people to take PAN cards, Solar heaters, etc. & penalise those that do not have them, why can't the same means be used to encourage people to vote ?

Your argument that it cannot be done because we are a "democracy" is regressive, I think & harsh measures are being taken in most democracies across the world, as needed. Why should it be any different in our country ?

I dont know what you mean when you say "systemic failure". Elections have been conducted & there have been poor turnouts in urban Bangalore. Why could not those that had cards vote, at least ?

When I went to vote, I was one of the few from our housing colony, though most, if not all of us had EPIC cards. There was so much of discussion as to how to get hold of an EPIC card, & almost all had successfully obtained them, but when actual voting was conducted, very few had turned up & most were not even aware where the polling station was. This has been the story across all of urban Bangalore, as confirmed by Voter turnout reports.

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Well, a better and more realistic way of looking at it is - most people are happy, their expectations are being met with whatever governance and systems are in place, so they don't see the need to vote.

We (pseudo and real activists on Praja etc) are not the best sample set. But, lack of better expectations is visible everywhere. Stuck in long jams, I still see most people happy spending time on phone cals and listening to music inside their cars. Times of India (with that supplement) sells lot lot more copies than Hindu :). People rather pay bribe to the lowest cadre constable than taking the time to learn the RTO rules and procedures.

Except when we are driving on the roads, middle class has shortcuts and workarounds available for most other utilities and conveniences of life. And it shows - traffic is all we hear in parties and open communities like Praja, things like water, power, parks, amenities, education etc are not issues at all.

So just take it, and let it go. We are good, so we don't vote.

Ban UPS and generators, ban large quantity storage of water at homes, make primary education universal (so that there are no private school options available as "workaround"). And then lets see how the voting percentages change.

I think I am turning into a leftist.

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Understand your frustrations with the current system.  I have often had this discussion with people who say that India needs a benevolent dictatorship for X ( 0<X<20) years and all will be fine.  I ask them to show me a couple of examples of benevolent dictatorship and they struggle.  Singapore comes to mind - but its longevity post LKY can be questioned.  China?  The current economic crisis has already shown the weaknesses in their system.  History is replete with benevolent dictatorships going all wrong - Cambodia, Germany, Indonesia, Zimbabwe. 

We have this dream that there will be one man who will just come and change India.  Will that really happen? Or is this just our way of shedding our responsibility?  I lay a lot of the responsibility for the current mess at my parents' generation.  We cannot do the same to our children.  Feeling helpless does not help matters.  Politicians can smell that like a shark can smell blood.

We have been given tools like RTI.  If enough of us use it we can bring about some change.  PILs are another option.   

What is the alternative when 1 billion people have to make collective decisions that determine their future?  Anarchy?  Would like to know your thoughts.

Srivathsa

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Naveen avare'

Perhaps you haven't read about Alex's and Mukunda's experiences detailed at    http://bangalore.praja.in/blog/murali772/2009/04/27/voters-apathy-rubbish     One official list had their names, and another didn't. So, when the SEC gives out a figure on the size of the electorate in a constituency, which list are they going by? And, what is the sanctity of those figures?

The point I am making is that when it shouldn't be such a difficult task to prepare and maintain voters' lists to an accuracy level of over 90%, except by the combo entrusted with the task currently, why are we contnuing to suffer them meekly?

Yes, there's a great level of apathy too. But, such shoddy handling only aggravates the overall mood.

And, apparently, my understanding of this quote of yours "proof of Voting must also be made mandatory" differs from the explanation provided by you. Let's leave it at that.

Muralidhar Rao

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Murali Avare,

Alex's & Mukunda's experiences are not ones by which generalizations can be made, such as rubbishing & blaming the SEC/s entirely & wholly for the very poor voter turnaround.

How come you now decided to concede that "there's a great level of apathy too" ?

Just as the SEC has to be blamed for incomplete electoral lists, citizens have also neglected their obligation to vote.

Do not simply blame the SEC & hold them responsible for everything about this fiasco.

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I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said this, and today, it is even more true than before.

-----------------------
Regards
Devesh
Bangalore Aviation
Enjoy life, destroy FUD

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Bangalore South :

Details of voters from Assembly Segments:

166-Govindaraja Nagara, 167-Vijayanagara, 169-Chickpet, 170-Basavanagudi, 171-Padmanabhanagara, 172-BTM Layout, 173-Jayanagara, 175-Bommanahalli.

Male: 19,17,601   -  Female: 9,17,292  

Total No.of Voters : 19,34,893 

Religious Break up - Vokkaligas-3.5 lakhs; Brahmins-3.4;  SC/ST - 2.5;         Muslims-1.8; Kurubas-1.70; Lingayats-1.20; Christians-20,000;              Kammams-70,000; Reddys-80,000; Vaishyas-30,000.                          (source: B'lore Mirror 31-3-09)    

Voted in First phase on 23-4-09 : 44.73 per cent 

Actually voted :  8,65,478

Sorry Bangalore South citizens - you have failed miserably.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

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Here is another miserable experience story of a young voter of Bengaluru South - source BM 24-4-09 -extract

 Our vote does not matter! Well, today as South Bangalore voted, I went running around looking for my name in the voters’ list! I have a Voters ID (No: YUZ584458) for which I ran around the BBMP office for days and despite having proper documentation of a Driving License, Voters ID, Passport, Pan Card - all issued by the Government of India - enough to prove that I am a  citizen of India and have turned 18, I was not allowed to vote.  

As a first time voter, I was waiting eagerly to exercise my fundamental right; I wasn’t allowed to do that! Speaking logically, my name must have been there in the Voters List as the authorities have issued a Voters ID to me and they still ask me to get some slip as a proof for the Voters ID which itself is a proof of my citizenship and I being a major!

It is not enough asking us to vote, they should give us the provision for it, and I spent my whole day looking for it! The so called help lines were wrong numbers or busy or no one picked!

We youngsters are supposed to be encouraged to vote, but I am disturbed by today’s incident with the casual attitude of people towards electing the leader who will run the country. I am so much disturbed by this that, I have decided not to vote in the next elections. I wish there was someone to take our plight seriously; they will rub it off saying just a vote or a Chalta Hai!

This is the paradox of our system failures - this alone mirrors the disgust about our voting system.

-Vasanth Mysoremath

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Mr Naveen

By stating "And, for all the effort, if you finally land up having to vote for a Jaffer Sherrif, Anant Kumar or a Kumaraswamy, apathy can be an added factor" in an earlier post, I had already conceded that there was apathy. There's absolutely no denying that. But, the point I am making is that the incapacities of the system are aggravating that to no small extent.

Perhaps after reading the posts by others (there are plenty more that I come across daily in the mail-groups that I am part of), I notice you are also now beginning to ask for complete overhaul of the system.

Good - we are beginning to agree on some matters atleast.

Muralidhar Rao

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Hey guys

As Murali Sir says - we are beginning to agree on some matters at least.  This is the half way - mid point - to bring in changes and to start with to be the change we want to see.

Let any number of Johnnies join and have holy or unholy alliances or live in arrangements, we the citizens must see that such alliances do not create a 'generation' born out of such couples. We have seen many divorces taking place within 24 hours.  that is not love for democracy - it is nothing but 'lust' for power.

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Ananth.Bangalore - Yr two quotes say it all :

" It is like a stray dog without a leash. And a leash does not mean anti-democracy "

A nation can only be as good as the people it has. If the dog is "stray", it will only get a stronger leash by it's master/s. As Devesh mentioned elsewhere, people only get the government they deserve, nothing more, nothing less.

" If we willingly, as a collective community, will not set things right for ourselves, internally we will have to go back to where we started from (square one) and start afresh "

We do not want to collectively choose what we want (including voting our leaders), we disagree on almost all things, we tend to argue over matters indefinitely without any conclusion.....the list is endless.

The politicians are laughing away at our collective failures as citizens. So, let's not hold only them responsible. I think all are to share the blame for this.

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Naveen, two things.

a. Electing our leaders- Going by what you said, (".....The politicians are laughing away at our collective failures as citizens. So, let's not hold only them responsible....." ), the primary and only reason to elect our leaders looks like is so that they can laugh at the people electing them. So why should one vote? Is voting the starting point of the solution for our troubles as we believe? I say NO. It is like this- one knows the train is never going to leave the station, is going to get cancelled- but nevertheless, one will have to run to the station to catch it in time. What use is it? ok, suppose i vote and make a difference (i dont want to say this- like that is possible) and a leader gets elected, then what? Sit in the station looking at all the muck all the time? only to wait and watch for the next five years if the representative is cleaning up and moving out. If he does not, elect another one after 5 years, who will again not. I can hear someone say we will have to still help do it, i ask, why elect a representative in the first place and have a government? I can hear another one say why dont you be the representative- well, i am not a dooomsday advocate, but maybe i dont believe i can do it in the present environment, maybe i dont believe anyone can do anything about it in the present environment (like i explained in my previous post), maybe i would like to be not a fool, maybe i would like for the rising to happen. 

b. Surely i agree that the people get the government they deserve. And i am not blaming the politicians for everything status quo. they are our making. Our lack of clarity, our lack of will power, our laziness, our ignorance and every negative aspect of ours will make a part of our governing body. A sociologist one said- a government will be the reflection of one person- that person being the average of all people in the country put together- an average of their intelligence or stupidity, an average of their perseverance or laziness, an average of their all traits. So if we have our politicians like we have them, they are what we are, and surely we need to be ashamed at ourselves.But that does not mean voting will solve everything. We can sit and pray it does.

You say- "....We do not want to collectively choose what we want (including voting our leaders), we disagree on almost all things, we tend to argue over matters indefinitely without any conclusion.....the list is endless....". We dont end up solving anything becasue we seem to be very good at complaining and commenting on the satus quo, instead of thinking why we dont solve anything. Either we are complaining at times or being short-sighted at others. Going one step further and finding out reasons and bringing clarity will go a long way. So i ask you if you say we disagree on almost everything, what stopped us from asking why we are like that? and that enquiry has to go all the way down and the aspiration should be to see the last of it.

So what does one do? Bring clarity, focus and determination to the mission of the soceity and community. that is the only right direction to go. Standing in lines in voting booths and voting will hardly help matters now.

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To be fair, I'm frustrated like hell too with all the c#?p that goes on around us....but shouldn't we be more positive in our outlook?

I think that 99% of the folk in our dear country don't completely understand the nature and workings of freedom and democracy, and/or if they understand, they don't care. For most of us, it is 'my liberty to throw my garbage in my neighbor's compound'. I wonder how many of us really want to understand the concepts in the first place.

So, I'm afraid we are talking a cultural issue. Things don't change overnight. 5 years is a long time, but in a country of our size and composition (with a majority dose of literate and illiterate self-centered lot), information certainly takes time to sink in. While we see more and more citizens (especially the young) trying to pragmatically dissect and understand the issues, we succeed if their count becomes the majority.

May be we should stop trying to chew the pie in its wholesome. May be it is best consumed in bits and pieces. As Praja might like to see it, solutions might be in the local changes that originate in our neighborhood, with local issues, and in a hope that such a micro revolution fever spreads its blanket around the whole country over time.

And then we will have our leaders (and a government) who will (continue to) represent what we are. But we might just about start feeling proud instead.

Thanks,

Ravi

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i agree partly with Ravi. Yes, we are talking about cultural issue, given the diversity of the populace, the extent of illeteracy, the huge stuggle to survive for many. And this is a vicious cycle. All this will not improve for the better if the leadership and administration does not change. And the government apathy and inefficient administration will not change for the better if the people dont change for the better. So where is the solution? Clearly in emporing those those few people who understand the system, the concept of democracy and freedom. This can be done only if approached from two directions- one in actually identifying (maybe all politicians need to pass an entrance test and more tests to compete everytime in elections) these people who undersand the concept and empowering them; and secondly, phasing out the demoting the opposites- that is the harder part. if the second part will not happen, the first will not suceed. The second one is like an over-grown weed. It will never let the lawn grow.

I do not agree micro-solutions will add to a macro-solution. It will only remain a mixture of non-cohesive, not related, in-compatabile mixture of micro solutions. Yes, the implementation of the solution can start micro, but the planning has to be macro. This calls for a complete overhaul of indian constitution and is a herculean task. But there are no choices.

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