...into this conversation? Will their hunger be mitigated if we didnt build this building?

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BSY is taking the right decision in writing an epitaph to BTC.

Innnumerable familes suffer because of this mega scam. Such a waste of land and a waste of our precious resources.

We should convert BTC land for the southern bench of the Supreme Court. Already M Veerappa Moily is the Union Minister for Law and has shifted the Additional Solicitor General office from Chennai to Bangalore.

We should grab this oppurtunity and make best use of it.

About horses and other horse play - who cares? 

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How come the C.M. is taking off the cuff decisions to shift racing ( BRC) from Bangalore to Mysore? Has he discussed with anyone?  Why not to shimoga?Does anyone want it here? This smacks of  takingunilateral decisions without knowing head or tail of a subject, without seeing the likely consequences.. Typical Yeddy knee-jerk reaction.

ERR

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Cadambi Sir

Please, please stop imagining that you will get speedy justice just by having a monstrous building housing the Supreme Court Bench/ Branch. 

- Let us talk about mother earth whose face has been scarred,

- let us talk about greening the planet that has been destroyed beyond recognition,

- let us talk about the dangers of climate change, global warming/global dimming, bio diversities, disappearing species, spread of immuno defficient deadly viruses

- let us talk about reduction of pollutions

- let us talk about the alarming reduction in staple food species and future dependency on millets

- let us talk about a good carbon sink/organic forest in 68 acres in CBD/ Race Course land with a little space for having an underground parking place for catering to CBD area with hanging gardens above ground. Nothing concrete should be visible at ground level.

- Let the richman's horses/donkeys be the business of breeders of corrupt practices because punters are 'kurigalu' and it has been proved beyond doubt that the races are controlled by serious back end gamblers/ operators who know how to pull the reigns of a favorite winning horse in one Race Course to amass more in another off course betting center.

- Pragmatism in governance is the need of the hour.

Mr.ERR - pl have a look at the link cited above.

- Vasanth Mysoremath 

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Vasanth,

No doubt i second your idea. But out of 68 acres of the Turf Club, atleast 8 to 10 acres can be used to build the southern bench of the Supreme Court. We can also provide space for various tribunals such as Railway Tribunal, CBDT,  Competition Commission et al to have their Southern Area Offices.

I am sure we can accomodate both Central Govt Judicial bodies such as the ones above and also have space for various consulates of USA, UK, EU, China, Korea and Japan here in Bangalore.

Even 50 Acres of Turf Club can be used for parks.

We need a little of it to add economic value to Bangalore without a larger profit motive.

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Cadambi avare,

With due regards to your ambition for economic value, may I have the pain of bringing to your kind notice that to save Narasimharaja Boulevard and its 134 valuable herbal trees, we, the Green warriors are having a pitched battle in Mysore with Red Roadies wanting destruction of nature at any cost.

The 'bodies' for whom you have suggested accommodation in Race Course Road in the name of 'economic value' may not fit in such a noisy area - their take is something like -Chanakya Puri in Delhi - expansive, spacious, landscaped, well secured and safe havens areas. -- not amidst Rakshana Vedike et al.

Accommodating such hi-ofices are not of much use to namma Bengaluru and for those suffering from allergic bronchitis and other ailments due to  toxic pollutants around Ananda Rao Circle/Seshadri Road, the most highly polluted area of CBD.

- Can you bring back those grand old shady rain trees that were uprooted in the name of road widening on Seshadri Road? What is the result today? Bring traffic from bus station/railway station area and over the fly over and dump it on Seshadri Road.  But the trees are dead and in their places more vehicles are standing spewing CO2.  As a penance, we need to create something hundred times better than those victims. 

= No compromise please.

- I hope you will Agree on these counts and recommend an organic forest/underground parking towards seshadri road and a hanging/landscaped rose garden on top of that concrete surface/nothing concrete above ground?

- Vasanth Mysoremath

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 The high rise buildings could come up on MG road instead. This place is anyway getting mass transit and will be an ideal space to accomodate high rises. Look at all the tiny little commerical places wasting prime real estate. Consolidating them may provide some relief. We should use our CBD more optimally instead of wasting space and creating urban sprawl destroying green space.

To retain the character of brigade road you can have the tower(s) straddle brigade road and have the shops on the inside of both legs like how they are now. The outside of the legs can be parking. This way the existing dwellers continue to get the street facing shops. Brigade road also can be made bigger and pedestrian only. The high rise will be able to provide a lot of parking for the entire area. Time for CBD rejuvenation. 

§§§ Tweetenator

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First of all Leave the CBD areas alone in city and cant - why should everything/everybody be crammed into such small square areas in the name of development?  With communication technology, the world has become a small village; even if we are 5k away, we can be seen and heard. 

From epicenter Kempe Gowda's statue in front of Corporation office- please do whatever fancy developments you want 30 kms. away and leave the so called CBD in City and Cantt. areas alone so that those who have lived for decades need not be made to live in veritable hell of noise, pollution and garbage.

There exist around Bangalore government/gomala lands that are barren/waste lands/arid areas where nothing grows properly.  Such lands may be suitable for putting up edifices.

Let there be a semblance of old/heritage values and happy living for those who have lived for centuries in namma Bengaluru.  It will be unbecoming of development to take away the little piece of land and also their peace that has been bequeathed by the forefathers of citizens. 

Development for whom is another question that has to be answered by those who are hankering about development.  We are all Indians is passe.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

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 First of all Leave the CBD areas alone in city 

No. Its called a Business District for a purpose. A healthy balance of history/greenery/modernity is appreciated and required in any dynamic city. Lets not celebrate neanderthalism.

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Whether we like it or not we are all offsprings of such Neandertal Men.

I wish I had a photograph of my 20th great grandfather to publish it on Praja.

but some Neandertals  behave like Men from Mars.

- Vasanth Mysoremath

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Does that mean in fact designating an area as CBD will make the development come there inevitably.

All the roads around Vidhana Soudha were widened! whose idea was it ? the enggr or the politicians ? Does the same process get used for what is an open space

How much more land use is now under roads in this area? Say from after July 2007? Does that make any difference > What about the no of trees felled?

compensating for all those changes is also required and one calculation will show that based on around 11000 trees felled in this area we need to convert the area of the BTC/ RC into a strong, fuelwood , fruiit bearing trees plantation at around 200 / acre

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 Does that mean in fact designating an area as CBD will make the development come there inevitably.

Yes, that is the purpose. But you need to back it up with appropriate facilities. You denote a CBD to enable a higher density of economic and retail activity. Nominating a zone as CBD also allows the administration to provide specalized facilities like transport, parking, higher FAR etc. This attracts more economic activity.

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Have a look at this link pl. 

GREEN PUNTERS

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/index.aspx?page=others&do=epaper

Page 6 of Bangalore Mirror of 2day (22-6-09) brings out a clear picture of how much the young minds are concerned about greening the city.  It is they who should be talking about development, economic activity, retail activity etc., but they seem to be in their best possible senses and concerns for the little delicate earth we are living in, especially, a dirty city like Bengaluru.

- we must learn from these youngsters words without hankering about unending and insatiable quest for economic development that results invariably in untold misery, ill health and all sorts of negative living conditions.  

- If we can breath fresh air and be healthy we can enjoy any kind of novea richness but if you are sick and keep spending your riches for that 'feel better' syndrome, then we will be loosers.

- Vasanth Mysoremath 

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hankering about unending and insatiable quest for economic development

Sorry, we cannot abandon the insatiable quest for economic development just because some extremists want to become cavemen and live in the forests eating berries. Balanced development means maintaining a reasonable ratio of infrastructure development to greenery. 

The young men are fighting for green because the development has been unbalanced and the ratio of green to concrete is skewed. It has been proven that creating density in the CBD will prevent the dissappearing lakes in the outskirts due to urban sprawl. If you dont build skyscrapers and residential apts those people will live on the lakebeds. 

Read my suggestion AGAIN. It is to consolidate existing concrete and create expensive space lost to poorly planned buildings in the CBD, not to destroy greenery like BTC to create concrete.

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 Vasanth,

With due respect, i cannot be forced to accept a consensus. 

Indeed your suggestion for more open space for the city and more green space is laudable and needed.

But at the same time, the economic needs of the city have to be taken into cognisance.

During the Narasimha Rao era, the Americans wanted to establish another consulate in South India in Bangalore. But as usual, that got scuttled in the whirlpool of Indian politics.

Today - it is Bangalore that is a pre-eminent city in India, an indeed for the world. We are not just the 'Silicon Plateau' of India, but the 'Silicon Plateau of the world'. 

The recently released World Bank study on Indian and Chinese IT sectors highlighted that Bangalore in Particular is becoming a high quality nodal city in it's own right and not just the 'back office' of the world.

We need to extract more value of of urban land and restict the horizontal and spatial expansion of the city, which brings along with it then, transportation problems.

In order to achieve the above, we must think of going vertical, which requires much less land for a unit of urban built up space.

Lets not confuse this with other issues. There are no trees in the present Race Course. Narasimharaja Boulevard is a different issue in a different context, which we know too well about.

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A new sub-city for bengaluru in the BIAL areas and 5 new layouts for 50,000 plots

Expansionism is going strong Mcadambi avare. All of this in addition to the private sector which has over stock and overcapacity but has not slowed down

and also the BBMP itself annexed lots of lands from PRIs and CMC/ TMCs so unless there is a way to cut BBMP to size SPRAWL will continue

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However, is there not enough carbon footprint right now without the skycraper in CBD?  Why create a monstro-city skycraper carbon footprint in CBD - just to offset it with urban forestry carbon sink in BTC and try to earn carbon credits? 

'Konkana suthi Mylaarakke banda haage'  Bekaa? Yaake?

If we create a very good carbon sink in BTC land by creating another Lalbagh like organic forest and showcase it to the world, value of carbon credit will increase manifold and it will be worth trading for many goodies in the international market, say for obtaining health care hi-end medical gadgets like scanners, life saving bio-engineering machines that can be provided to the 'have nots' at reasonable cost.

Skycrapper is literally a pain in the neck because even to look at its top floor, we have to strain our neck.

By the way Mr.TWEETENATOR Sir,        reg: 'Extremist Neandertholism'

there is no word called 'NEANDERTHOLISM' leave alone 'extreme' and according to Encarta,  meaning of the word 'NEANDERTHOLS' is as follows and is against the terms and conditions of posting in Praja.  Pray, reconsider removal or give an explanation because many other Prajas have also expressed or endorsed views expressed by me and your post may be applicable to those Prajas also:

You are posting under the name 'idontspam' but the usage of the above word Neanderthal in the present context -  is SPAM.

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Cadambi Sir

Agreed - development is a continuous process.  Particularly in urban aglomerations, it has become a necessary evil.  But your take about urban sprawl's 'inefficient' increase is well taken.  This is what my take also.  First of all we have had enough of development processes in and around CBDs like Majestic and MG Rd areas in namma Bengaluru to such great extents, it is literally choking all infrastructures proposed for the people.

- Every day 2000 vehicles are being registered in Bengaluru. 

- Where is the road and parking place for vehicles that may reach the so called edifice of 250 floors?   Can you imagine the chaos?  There are millions of people who pass through these CBDs and cross over to other ends of their destinations even though hardly 10 per cent of people have anything to do with CBDs.   

- Vasanthkumar Mysoremath

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Public Agenda,

No matter how much we try, we cannot stop urbanisation. I am rather surprised (or rather not) that the Indian intelligentsia view urbanisation as a bad force. Even the highest echleons of the political junta in India feel that urbanisation is a bane.

It is NOT a bane. Urbanisation if catalysed well in terms of energy usage, transport and other parameters, can lead to a more effecient use of natural resources.

Given that broader context, urbanising the BIAL area is a better thing to do than providing a costly and tax payer paid high speed rail link.

The part of our economy that needs international connection and air travel more, would locate itself close to BIAL.

We have to see to that the the urban sprawl does not *ineffeciently* increase. It is just like per capita power consumption. As our economy grows, so does per capital power consumption. The difference between good per capita power consumption and bad per capita power consumption is how *effecient* and how *less intensive* is that power consumption.

Keeping that analogy in mind, if there is effecient urbanisation, it caters to the growing needs of people while making effecient use of our natural resources. 

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How about this, We build enough urban forestry in BTC land to offset the carbon generated by the skyscraper in the CBD?

The carbon credit system is a major step that needs to be made to work first for the industries and then at an individual level. I would like the generic discussion to continue here

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Vasanth Sir,

Urbanisation is catalysed both by inter urban transport and intra urban transport. Advanced in transportation and communication and energy distribution are the processes that catalyse urbanisation.

With that in mind, we have to look at the specific example of Bangalore. Our ruling junta like to benchmark themselves with Singapore - yet do not emulate a core aspect in Singapore - restriction on private vehicle ownership.

One need not worry about excessive traffic in and around the Race Course - if space is available there for offices / consulates as i proposed. But the caveat is that building by-laws here should be tuned to the situation.

For example, even if there are consulates and business space in the proposed Race Course, the caveat should be that only car space should be there enough for top management like incoming ambassadors et al.

This way by physically restricting the car space and parking space, we do not need to worry about congestion.

Second, we can have a subway from Race Course to the underground Majestic Station of Bangalore Metro. This effectively disincentivises the need to depend on private transport to get to the Race Course.

Policy making is not a zero sum game. Sustainable Development is also not a zero sum game.

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While most agree on the end result - greener, cleaner, liveable city for one and all, methods to get there can be many. Some say no development should be allowed in the CBD, others might opine to increase efficiency by going skywards. Both have merits. I tend to agree with the latter, but yes, we need to ensure that proper planning precedes such execution. We also need to ensure that proper attention is devoted to heritage and cultural aspects. But, point is - we may want to note that building skyscrappers is not bad, per se.

We may be better off without any edifice on the race course land is a different matter altogether. This thread has already turned into a debate on phillosophy.

Ravi

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Meanwhile, Chief Minister Yeddyurappa told the Legislative Assembly on Wednesday that the existing Race Course premises would be developed into a beautiful park.

Finally some positive news on the Race Course - i hope he sticks to his words and converts the full area into urban forest. 

Full report here - http://www.deccanherald.com/content/16738/greens-give-hue-race-course.html

The city greens are anyways not taking any chance and have approached the courts to ensure that this land is not used for commercial purposes.

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Apparently the CM quoted that only a "major" portion of the race will be converted into a park and not the whole race course. "major" - is a very misleading word.

“A major portion of the existing race course will be developed into a magnificent garden. The BDA will plan it,”

Article here - http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIBG/2009/07/31&PageLabel=1&EntityId=Ar00111&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T

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I was in Kualalumpur few years ago and was seeing the petronas in awe..my host there told me that Mahatir Mohammed totally got it wrong and the towers did no good for Malaysia!

It was millions down the drain to realise what was needed..

Not that I am trying to draw parallel's here and expect the same happening in Bangalore..but lets see..Sir MV is more known and prayed as 'Anna Dhaata' in Mysore and Mandya dist not cos he built a tower or a palace..but more because of Kannambadi Katte!

he understood the need!

We have the need and the opportunity..lets try do something for the masses!

In a way I guess I can call myself very poor... deficiencies not related to my material wealth!

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 we can then see if anything alternate will help the poor

How will not building a 100 story tower bring the rest of the benefits you have talked about? Why have the poor not had the benefits so far? How do you think not building the tower will bring it to them? Your point is frivolous and has nothing to do about bringing millions out of poverty. This is an argument used to KEEP people in poverty by scuttling anything that will get them out of poverty.

What is the alternate badavaru point? WIll the forest/garden we are pushing for help the badavaru come out of poverty more than the building will? 

Energy shortfall will not be solved by not building buildings. It will only bring the economy to a halt. Our populations need for energy will not be met by stopping the need for buildings it will only come by discovering and building new energy sources. The energy we are consuming per capita in India and Bangalore is miniscule compared to the amount of energy burnt to keep people happy elsewhere. 

Please do read this piece

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Would you stop building a rocket which puts a man on the moon? Would you stop pure science research? Would you stop nuclear submarine? Battle tanks? What benefit do these serve the common man? 

 Any construction activity from nano structures to rockets bring out technologies that have side benefits. If rockets have launched satellites into space, high rises have allowed increased density. Compressed cities bring cost effencies in utility distribution and environment. Urban sprawl is the first offender in a high carbon environment.

I dont fancy govt building ANY buildings. These are best done by private parties. All the govt needs to do is relax FAR to allow for it and ensure fire service and emergency services are able to handle it. I would also want it in the CBD where public transport and pedestrian amenities can be made available on priority and not all over the place. One in yelahanka another in kengeri etc.

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Atlanta has a metro network of 74 km while Barcelona’s is 99 km. These may seem comparable, but per capita CO2 emissions for Atlanta are ten times Barcelona’s. The difference is mostly explained by urban form. Barcelona is compact and dense while its American rival is spread out. The longest possible distance within the city is 137 km while in Barcelona it is only 37 km. As a result, less than 4 per cent of Atlanta’s population lives within a reasonable walking distance of a metro station compared to 60 per cent for Barcelona. Not surprisingly, a large proportion of Barcelona’s citizens walk or use public transport while in Atlanta one is forced to use a car

Read more

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 .they have already revised the limits on FAR..they shd be good to go!

FAR in the vicinity of metro stations have been relaxed to 4 whereas downtown manhattan has FAR of 10 and 14 (17 with bonus). Relaxation for metro only is a knee jerk reaction. Bangalore mobility indicators are out and based on the numbers in that and the mass transit plan that we have we should be able to classify zones where we can allow higher FAR and encourage taller buildings. A higher LEED certification for the building could allow the FAR to be relaxed more in the form of a bonus.

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 mob fury with punters smashing the weighing room and the CCTVs in the bookmakers ring before hurling down chairs from the top tier into the paddock area.

more here

I do not understand why the govt is allowing betting and gambling right next to their offices..its high time the BTC is shifted  or even shut down..what to do with the land there will be a different question all together, but for the good of the society, this place should be shut down for good !

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